Political leaders and religion

[felinechums]

Speaking as an atheist who feels that harm has often been justified by the assertion that it was god's will, I find it profoundly disturbing that both George W Bush and Tony Blair refer to god so often in their justifications for major decisions that affect all of us. Does anyone agree?

[Clanad]

Could you give an example pertaining to President Bush, please?

[jake-the-peg]

There seem to be three commonly cited examples with regards to George Bush.

Firstly that he said "God wants me to become President" - Richard Land a Southern Baptist Minister quoted him as saying this - Hmm a politician preaching to the choir perhaps

Secondly that he said athiests should not be considered as citizens or patriots . Well he definately said this and whilst it displays mind numbing bigotry (substitute jews for athiests and see what you think) it's not the same as claiming a hot line to God.

Finally and perhaps more damning its the claim by the Prime Minister of Palistine that in 2003 George Bush said to him: President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq �" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Whether or not this is true Nabil Shaath can't be considered exactly impartial.

Put this together with the simple fact that anybody wanting to get elected to the Presidency effectively has to profess a Christian faith, and I'd say the jury was still out on

But maybe somebody's got some better examples

[Clanad]

Here's one quote, taken from a liberal news source:..."According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"

"Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then the news paper, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English."
The press secretary states emphatically that it never happened, by the way. Before you jump all over thepress secretary for bias, consider that they have never, previously, denied Bush's relationship or talk about God.
On January 5, 2005, he said... "I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord." Looks pretty tolerant and level headed to me, while adhering to his personal convictions...

Contd.

[Clanad]

Contd.

The major problem with the quote about atheists is that it came from his father, President George H.W. Bush on not George W. Bush... ""I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots," Bush said during an August 27, 1988 press conference, according to an American Atheists spokesman. ...
The White House has yet to admit or deny Bush's statement despite calls for clarification by several newspaper reporters. White House Counsel C. Boyden Gray responded vaguely two months later, stating that Bush "is a religious man who neither supports atheism nor believes that atheism should be unnecessarily encouraged or supported by the government."
-- from the Minnesota Daily, Tuesday, 2 may 1989 p 14

Richard Land's quote is accurate, but was said in a private meeting with close associates when he was still Governor of Texas...

I think this quote from 2004 is what Bush is really all about..."I fully understand it's important to maintain the separation of church and state. We don't want the state to become the church, nor do we want the church to become the state.

"There's a way to accomplish the separation of church and state, and at the same time, accomplish the social objective of having America become a hopeful place, and a loving place."
--Speech in Washington D.C., June 1, 2004

[jake-the-peg]

You're absolutely right about the athiest quote - wrong George Bush I appologise. However it was according to American Athiests but in response to them at an open press conference at O'Hare airport:

When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

Not perhaps his finest hour as a politician but not exactly Watergate