Alzheimer's and emigrating?

[nutgoneflake]

Ok, here's a tricky one that I hope someone can unravel!

My mother-in-law (mum) is living with her mother (husband's Gran) permanently, having sold her property to move in. Gran has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and qualifies for all kinds of home help, respite care, day centres etc. Mum would like to sell up (GRAN'S house that is!) and move to USA - she doesn't have to work any more and has considerable provision for her retirement, savings plans, blah blah blah, basically she is financially secure, and so is Gran.

Mum went over to the States for a holiday recently and bought a house on the spur of the moment. (Yes I know....whatever you're thinking, we've all said the same!) She's known for having big ideas and then changing her mind, but this time it appears she's gone a bit further than anyone expected, and the family is now in turmoil over the following:

Will Gran be allowed to move there permanently if she has a degenerative illness?

There's more...

[nutgoneflake]

contd...

What would happen if/when she dies?

What happens with visas for mum if she has no need to work/no property in UK/property in US/a dependent adult? Basically, no ties here.

Can she just go on holiday and buy a house like that?

What if the family feels Gran doesn't want to go? They've only just found out, and a house has been bought already.

How much say would the other siblings have over their Mother's 'removal?' Obviously they want to spend her last years with her, and won't be able to.

There is no end to the trouble this is all causing - I haven't even mentioned Gran's will, Power of Attorney and who has it, and Gran being kept away from her other two children and not being told, until today, that mum plans to take her to US with her.

ANY help at all on the legalities of anything here? I know mum won't have checked anything enough, but we'd like to have a few concrete facts ourselves, even if she hasn't, before the inevitable family showdown.

It's making mr nutgone really unhappy, for a million and one reasons, but the ones mentioned here are enough to be going on with!!

We'd both be grateful for any help at all, thanks!

[Ethel]

Emigrating to the USA is not a simple thing, no matter how independently wealthy you are.

Many people who own a second home in the States can live in it for only 90 days a year.

So not only may the ill grandmother have problems emigrating to the USA, but the mother may find it impossible as well.

She needs to get the visa thing sorted first of all.

[nutgoneflake]

Thanks Ethel - I thought you'd be out there! This is what we were hoping really. Mum's being extremely selfish and not thinking things through properly, as usual. Gran's confused and very old, and we all know want/need her family around her as she deteriorates further. Mum keeps everyone away so they don't get in the way of her latest whim. She's installed a high-tech security system with cameras which she maintains is for Gran's safety round the house, but which in practice is used to screen callers at the door - including family. She even hides her car so that we think she's out.

The buying a house part has been a huge step too far. We're hoping that the visa thing will mean coming back and forwards all year - knock-on effect being that Gran can't go, and subsequently won't be able to have her house sold from underneath her.

It's like some weird soap opera here at the moment! Any help on any other bits of this dilemma anyone?? xxx

[Ethel]

Even getting travel and medical insurance for your grandmother is going to be a very expensive nightmare.

It's bad enough for the fit elderly.

Hope it all gets sorted to your satisfaction.

[daffy654]

I would contact a solicitor about this as your gran's house can't be sold out from under her (unless your mum in law has power of attorney over her property and money). This house is basically the inheritance for your mum in law and her siblings so she would be denying them anything when your gran dies. Also even if they do get visa's to the US what would happen when your gran needs medical care when the alzheimers gets worse? as we all know you have to pay for medical care over there,whereas here she should get it free.

[nutgoneflake]

Exactly, daffy! Her sister is about to involve a solicitor. Mum doesn't have Power of Attorney, and her argument is always "Gran wants to go - it's her money" but then won't let anyone talk to Gran directly to find out! She also maintains she'll hire a live-in carer in the US when she can't cope by herself any more, but personally I think she couldn't actually afford it and is assuming Gran's money will be spent on her own care.

Charming, isn't it?!! We just want to find out any or all of the legal implications, because she clearly hasn't...

[themas]

So who does have power of attorney, and what do they think about it? If they object, they can stop Gran's house being sold (assuming it is in Gran's sole name) - whatever Mum says. Is the move dependent on the money from sale of the house? If it is, then this might help scupper the plan - along with all the other practical problems already mentioned.

If Gran has the help you list, is this done privately or through Social Services? If the latter, perhaps you could involve them & get their view on whether Gran is mentally competent enough to deicde whether she wants to go or not.

Contact the USA embassy, describe the situation to them and ask them whether either Mum or Gran or both would be allowed to emigrate. Also find out as much as you can about medical costs in USA - these can be horrendous.

[nutgoneflake]

Thanks themas - you've given us a few options not considered so far.
To answer your questions, Gran's will splits her estate three ways - mum and 2 siblings. But since moving in, mum has spent nearly 30,000 on improvements and this has complicated it! Gran wants to leave slightly more to mum as she is 24 hour carer at the mo, which is fair enough. One sibling agrees, one doesn't.
P of A has yet to be sorted out, but Gran doesn't want to talk about it. She's a very stubborn old lady and when lucid, is dismissive of the whole idea. As a result, she still has control of her own affairs.
Buying the new house doesn't depend on the sale of Gran's, no. The idea of selling up totally is, as far as we can gather, so that Gran can go too, and have the money for the necessary healthcare. It's ridiculous - neither of them is so wealthy they can afford care for an indeterminate number of years. They could have a very comfortable retirement in this country, but in the US they'd be paying unnecessarily huge amounts.

None of it makes sense, and it's causing a lot of heartache. Mr nutgone and his mum have had another upset this afternoon. One sibling has been around there and actually been allowed in today, but we're waiting for news on that score!! It's all awful, but at least it makes me glad that MY side of the family is more normal!

Thanks again x

[angel75]

no one will be able to sell the house without your gran say so.they will assess her mentall health and it will have to go through court.,due to the illness she has.they will make sure that she knows what is going on around here.this would happen even if they just wanted to move her to a care home.

[nutgoneflake]

Thanks for replying angel! We realise that, it's more a case of Gran being 'told' she wants to go to US. That, or her not being fully aware that it'll mean spending her savings on healthcare if she DOES go. She's still fairly on the ball occasionally, and ordinarily would have loved to have gone abroad to live. She used to talk about it before she became ill, but now we're worried she'll 'half remember' she wanted to go, but won't comprehend the enormity, or cost of mum's plans for her...

We'd happily wave mum off if she really wanted to go, but would rather see Gran comfortable, in familiar surroundings, with family able to spend time with her. Noone's bothered whether she leaves any money when she's gone, we just hope she can afford to live out her days in her own home. As mum is her carer, it seems Gran has to go along with any plans she makes, and may be persuaded to sell up to do it.

[Ethel]

I would be extremely surprised if your mum is allowed to emigrate permanently to the USA without your grandmother, never mind with her.

It is not an easy thing to do.

[nutgoneflake]

Precisely Ethel! She may have made an expensive mistake, and we may all be worrying about nothing. It wouldn't surprise me if her plan fell through - I already mentioned she has a habit of building castles in the air - but this time she's actually gone ahead with it, and even if it never happens, she's upset everyone just by being so thoughtless and selfish, presuming she can ride roughshod over the whole family without any backlash.

Proof that money doesn't buy happiness...!!

[themas]

I'm not sure I agree with angel75's comment. It's quite possible the sale could be done without Gran ever seeing the solicitor - Mum could get the papers sent to her & "persuade" Gran to sign them.

Even if Gran did see the solicitor, if it happened to be on a lucid day she could give the impression of really knowing what she was doing.

The sale would only have to go to Court if Gran was determined to be mentally incompetent. If that happened then - as there is no Power of Attorney - the Court of Protection procedure would have to be followed & no-one could do anything until it was complete (& it can take a long time).

Mr nutgone - is there any mileage in talking to Gran's doctor about his view of her mental state?

[nutgoneflake]

I think what you describe could happen more easily than any of us would dare to guess, themas! Mum's sister is talking to the doctor, as they have met before - good idea, though.

But, we have done some googling and the visa situation looks absolutely certain to mean the whole thing is a write-off. We don't know for sure what research mum's done, as I said - probably none - but she doesn't have the right family members in US to sponsor one kind of visa; she isn't married to a citizen for another; she wouldn't have property left in the UK as proof of ties here etc.

The whole US thing seems doomed, fingers crossed! She may yet regret being so flash with her money in front of her American friends last month. I hope for her sake she has a cooling-off period, and that she hadn't paid in full. I know she's selfish, but I can't bring myself to wish her any more misfortune! One good thing is that the house isn't completed yet - November, she was told - so I'm guessing/hoping that she would've only paid a deposit?

Hub's gone over there tonight after yet another earful from her. He's got to drive 20 miles to see whether he'll be allowed in first, though, as she won't answer the phone....

This is really helping though - thanks to everyone. It's not the kind of conversation you could just start up with a friend face-to-face over a coffee!!
xx

[Carakeel]

This is late I konw, but as it hasn't been mentioned yet ... If your mother wants to emigrate to the US permanently, she will also have to find one or two US citizens to sponsor her, I believe. This was the case when my ex-hubby and I wanted to move there many years ago. Also, she will have to prove that she has a required amount of money (used to be $50,000) to cover her initial costs, regardless of whether she already has property there or not. I doubt very much that her mother would be allowed residency unless she were able to prove that she has existing full US medical insurance coverage. If she has not already got this insurance, then she will most likely not find an insurance company that will cover her Alzheimer's costs, as this is an existing illlness.
All in all nutgoneflke, I can't see how your mother-in-law is going to pull this off. I don't think you need to be too worried. Best wishes though. :o)

[nutgoneflake]

Thanks Carakeel, I think you're right. Currently, the house purchase is going ahead, but as for the rest...nobody knows yet!

We've realised now that it's not possible the way she planned, so we're going to wait now and see what happens next. They've all been talking this week, which is progress in itself though!