How should these subhumans be punished?

[R1Geezer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk...yorkshire/8472265.stm
The problem is, they'll go to a holiday camp for a few years and then have life of luxury and annonimity, just like the Bulger killers, there must be another way. GBH? don't make me laugh this was attempted murder.

[Ankou]

i would tend to agree, but i am not really sure what can be done.
interesting ton ote how the finger is already pointing towards social services rather than any cupability towards the family parents/guardians.

[jake-the-peg]

I note that your immediate reaction is that they are subhuman and how they can be punished

Do you think punishment would change them? or have you written them off as beyond change at 10 and 11?

At what age do you write someone off as beyond reform Geezer?

Or have you undergone a religious conversion and believe in inherant evil?

Or do you just get a kick out of the idea of punishing evildoers - you wouldn't be alone

[VHG]

Children of this age do not become like this on their own. They do it with terrible treatment from awful parents, as seems to be the case here.

I gather the father was very violent, so who knows what these kids went through themselves, twisting their minds and making THEM violent.

The ONLY way to treat them and make them better is to show them a safe, secure, loving envinmonent.

or would you rather they were thrown in a prison cell for the rest of their lives.

[R1Geezer]

"I note that your immediate reaction is that they are subhuman and how they can be punished" - Well normal Humans do not torture others fo fun, QED.

"Do you think punishment would change them? or have you written them off as beyond change at 10 and 11?" - Punishment would probably not change them, hopefully it would make them suffer, I think they are inherently evil, they cannot be rehabilitated.

"At what age do you write someone off as beyond reform Geezer?" - No particular age just the actions they engage in.

"Or have you undergone a religious conversion and believe in inherant evil?" - I am n atheist but for the purposes of this sort of thing I'm adoption the word evil as I cannot think of a non religious term for the same thing.

"Or do you just get a kick out of the idea of punishing evildoers - you wouldn't be alone" - Not a kick I just dispair at these sort of actions and society's lack of any appropriate way of dealing with it. this sort of "Evil" is usually rewarded by the state's protection whilst the victims suffer.

What should we do then?

[jno]

You like the idea of making 10-year-olds suffer? Hm.

[Sweep2k]

If as a society we can't rehabilitate a 10 year old child, we really are beyond pathetic.

It's like saying there's no point teaching a 10 year old who can't read, because he's proven already that he's dim.

[123everton]

Is it better or worse that the perpetrators are so young?
One would feel that given their age they could be made into decent individuals, if they were ten years older then I'd be more concerned, but then it wouldn't be so big a story then.
There are many former child soldiers in Africa, once taken away from that environment they seem to revert quite quickly into being children.
It's the parents and the victims who will suffer longest, my thought are with them.

[Old_Geezer]

I think there may be a difference between not having yet learnt a skill such as reading, and having shown no ability to treat others with compassin, which should be inherent.

My view is that they need to be cared for in a mental asylum until such time, if it arrives, that a large number of doctors are convinced they have become sane, and safe to release back into society again.

[fredpuli47]

RIG .'GBH?This was attempted murder' ? RIG.Sorry the charge makes you laugh but you've not had to face the practicalities. They were charged with s18 , not gbh (s20) but gbh with intent gbh.The maximum is the same as for attempted murder.It's extremely difficult to get home on attempted murder even in a case of premeditated violence like this and that is not changed by evidence that the accused said e.g. 'I'll kill you' or 'I'm going to kill you' since that is commonly said in such cases and the extent of the violence is not itself proof beyond doubt that the words were meant literally.In this case that is even less of a consideration.That's because of the age of the person saying it.Children are even more free with their language than adults.

In practice therefore the prosecution indicts for and has pleas to s18, not attempted murder.The judge's powers are identical to those in attempted murder.As a matter of interest, had they intended only gbh, not murder, and the boy had died that would be murder ! That's the niceties of common law for you.

[1rovert]

It never stops to amaze me, the way excuses are made for these thugs. It’s their parents fault; it’s the schools fault; it’s the governments fault; they have nothing to do; there’s no clubs for us; the water in the bath wasn’t warm enough. ANY EXCUSE.
Out the way of any guidance, or anyone to watch over them. THEY BECOME THUGS. These two BRATS should be taken out, and given twenty five strokes of the cat o nine tails. That might make them and others think before they act. Or better still; give them to the DO GOODERS to bring up, and let them take the consequences.

OH! And YES! I would bring back hanging, and in advance, I don’t care what you think of me.

[VHG]

1rovert, that is one of the most pathetic appends I have ever seen on this forum.

Read what the court was told yesterday (and what is your solution, give them 25 strokes of the cat o nine tails - that should help)

Two brothers who brutally attacked two young boys witnessed serious domestic violence against their mother and had a "toxic home life", a court has heard.

Peter Kelson QC, representing the older brother, told Sheffield Crown Court the boys' father threatened to slice their mother's face "to bits" with a knife.

The court heard the boys were also shown "extreme" horror films.

[fredpuli47]

Indefinite detention [pause while someone who doesn't understand sentences says 'they've only got 5 years !' ].
What happened to Mary Bell ?She killed a young child when she was about this age.She must be in her forties now.Now, had we had the cat o' nine tails available, we could have given her strokes of that, to cure her, and watched as she grew into ther full-blown pyschopath which she seemed destined to become.At least one of these youngsters shows signs of the same state as that, according to the psychiatric reports.