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Animals & Nature1 min ago
Who are the real troublemakers?
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Although most of the press have been quiet over this, the EDL are planning a peaceful protest in Birmingham 0n 29th October.
http://www.birmingham...633404/#ixzz1bTGM6NbA
/// Selly Oak Labour MP Steve McCabe urged West Midlands Police to apply to Home Secretary Theresa May for the EDL protest to be banned ///
/// Unite Against Fascism confirmed it was organising an anti-EDL demonstration, to start at noon in High Street. A spokesman said: “The EDL wants to bring its vicious, anti-Muslim racist hatred to the multi-racial, multi-cultural city.” ///
Since it would appear that the UAF are purposely organising an anti-EDL demonstration, which invariably causes trouble, perhaps in this instant it is the UAF who should be banned, just as the EDL should be banned if they tried to disrupt an UAF protest.
What a change that would be to see the headlines:
" MP URGES POLICE TO BAN UNITED AGAINST FASCISM COUNTER-DEMONSTRATION IN BIRMINGHAM"
http://www.birmingham...633404/#ixzz1bTGM6NbA
/// Selly Oak Labour MP Steve McCabe urged West Midlands Police to apply to Home Secretary Theresa May for the EDL protest to be banned ///
/// Unite Against Fascism confirmed it was organising an anti-EDL demonstration, to start at noon in High Street. A spokesman said: “The EDL wants to bring its vicious, anti-Muslim racist hatred to the multi-racial, multi-cultural city.” ///
Since it would appear that the UAF are purposely organising an anti-EDL demonstration, which invariably causes trouble, perhaps in this instant it is the UAF who should be banned, just as the EDL should be banned if they tried to disrupt an UAF protest.
What a change that would be to see the headlines:
" MP URGES POLICE TO BAN UNITED AGAINST FASCISM COUNTER-DEMONSTRATION IN BIRMINGHAM"
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From the test of your post AOG, your argument appears to be based less on the concept of a counter-demmo causing trouble, and therefore to be potentiallly banned in advance, than the protagonists involved.
Hstory indicates that you feel a degree of sympathy with the EDL for getting a 'bad press', and a degree of antipathy for the UAF whom you appear to perceive as left-wing troublemakers.
From a personal point of view, I find the entire concept of the EDL to be a pointless nonsensical stance around which a large number of knuckle-headed racists form to present their odious 'nationalist' opinions that this country is 'white' and beloings only to its indiginous population.
Therefore it makes perfect sense to me that such an organisation should be upbraided and decried at every opportunity - a function fulfilled by the UAF.
Are you willing to state that - in line with your admitted and oft-defended right wing views, you regard the EDL as a legitimate political cause, and the UAF to be little more than 'leftie' agitators?
Hstory indicates that you feel a degree of sympathy with the EDL for getting a 'bad press', and a degree of antipathy for the UAF whom you appear to perceive as left-wing troublemakers.
From a personal point of view, I find the entire concept of the EDL to be a pointless nonsensical stance around which a large number of knuckle-headed racists form to present their odious 'nationalist' opinions that this country is 'white' and beloings only to its indiginous population.
Therefore it makes perfect sense to me that such an organisation should be upbraided and decried at every opportunity - a function fulfilled by the UAF.
Are you willing to state that - in line with your admitted and oft-defended right wing views, you regard the EDL as a legitimate political cause, and the UAF to be little more than 'leftie' agitators?
-- answer removed --
Andy-Hughes
/// From a personal point of view, I find the entire concept of the EDL to be a pointless nonsensical stance around which a large number of knuckle-headed racists form to present their odious 'nationalist' opinions that this country is 'white' and beloings only to its indiginous population. ///
That is your own personal view and you have every right to it.
But I am afraid it is my personal view that you like most of the 'anti-EDL' accusers, are totally wrong in your views.
Instead of putting up a concise and intelligent argument, you revert to the usual insults such as 'knuckle-headed racists', odious 'nationalist' opinions etc.
You then continue to go on and make completely untrue and quite frankly ridiculous and bigoted statements such as this:
"that this country is 'white' and belongs only to its indigenous population".
What is your proof of this, have the EDL ever said they want all black and otherwise non-indigenous persons shipping out of the land?
You apparently take a similar sensationalistic stance as others:
///Most people recognise that our message is not ‘hateful’, even if they disagree with what we have to say. And yet when politicians comment on our demonstrations they so often resort to juvenile name-calling. Sometimes commentators cobble together a rather amateur, inaccurate and insulting analysis which claims that we’re simply scapegoating a minority group at random, and that other notable minorities should ‘watch out’, but often they too rely on a variety of terms designed not to give an accurate description of our views, but to demonise them. It’s difficult to decide which is the most transparent.///
The EDL are against radical Islam, nothing more and nothing less.
/// We have said time and time again that we are not protesting against British Muslims, but against radical Islam. If there are any British Muslims who wish to side with radical Islam, then that is more a reflection on them than it is on us. Our quarrel is not with individuals, but with an ideology. ///
Both of these passages are taken from the following link, which when read with a totally unbiased mind, makes interesting reading.
http://englishdefence...tration-october-29th/
/// From a personal point of view, I find the entire concept of the EDL to be a pointless nonsensical stance around which a large number of knuckle-headed racists form to present their odious 'nationalist' opinions that this country is 'white' and beloings only to its indiginous population. ///
That is your own personal view and you have every right to it.
But I am afraid it is my personal view that you like most of the 'anti-EDL' accusers, are totally wrong in your views.
Instead of putting up a concise and intelligent argument, you revert to the usual insults such as 'knuckle-headed racists', odious 'nationalist' opinions etc.
You then continue to go on and make completely untrue and quite frankly ridiculous and bigoted statements such as this:
"that this country is 'white' and belongs only to its indigenous population".
What is your proof of this, have the EDL ever said they want all black and otherwise non-indigenous persons shipping out of the land?
You apparently take a similar sensationalistic stance as others:
///Most people recognise that our message is not ‘hateful’, even if they disagree with what we have to say. And yet when politicians comment on our demonstrations they so often resort to juvenile name-calling. Sometimes commentators cobble together a rather amateur, inaccurate and insulting analysis which claims that we’re simply scapegoating a minority group at random, and that other notable minorities should ‘watch out’, but often they too rely on a variety of terms designed not to give an accurate description of our views, but to demonise them. It’s difficult to decide which is the most transparent.///
The EDL are against radical Islam, nothing more and nothing less.
/// We have said time and time again that we are not protesting against British Muslims, but against radical Islam. If there are any British Muslims who wish to side with radical Islam, then that is more a reflection on them than it is on us. Our quarrel is not with individuals, but with an ideology. ///
Both of these passages are taken from the following link, which when read with a totally unbiased mind, makes interesting reading.
http://englishdefence...tration-october-29th/
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that might be what's written on their website and possibly what it was started out as and there may well be few members who so suscribe to the EDL "party" view. but its not why a lot of the members have joined or go along on the marches
a quick look at the comments on their facebook pages will tell you about the mentality of their members
a quick look at the comments on their facebook pages will tell you about the mentality of their members
mccfluff
/// i am in the unfortunate situation of "knowing" a few edl members, who freely admit they don't give a stuff about the politics they just go along for a fight.///
This may be true, I would be a fool to deny it.
But isn't this the same with all protest groups the thugs will infiltrate any large gathering.
Take the student riots, the Gypsy camp eviction, those who threatened reporters outside St Pauls, and I am sure I could cite numerous other examples.
/// i am in the unfortunate situation of "knowing" a few edl members, who freely admit they don't give a stuff about the politics they just go along for a fight.///
This may be true, I would be a fool to deny it.
But isn't this the same with all protest groups the thugs will infiltrate any large gathering.
Take the student riots, the Gypsy camp eviction, those who threatened reporters outside St Pauls, and I am sure I could cite numerous other examples.
<<But isn't this the same with all protest groups the thugs will infiltrate any large gathering. >>
So that rather supports the MP Mr McCabe's view:
“I used to say that the EDL should be allowed to demonstrate but having seen the trouble they cause, I’ve changed my mind,” Mr McCabe said. “Birmingham people can’t afford to waste that much money on policing and repairing the damage to our retail area.
“These things are deliberately organised to cause maximum destruction. There’s no element of normal demonstration.
“This is a rag bag of extremism looking to cause trouble and I don’t think the Birmingham people deserve it.”
So that rather supports the MP Mr McCabe's view:
“I used to say that the EDL should be allowed to demonstrate but having seen the trouble they cause, I’ve changed my mind,” Mr McCabe said. “Birmingham people can’t afford to waste that much money on policing and repairing the damage to our retail area.
“These things are deliberately organised to cause maximum destruction. There’s no element of normal demonstration.
“This is a rag bag of extremism looking to cause trouble and I don’t think the Birmingham people deserve it.”
Ankou
/// nope. read all that aog. what exactly are edl protesting
about? ///
Since the word 'read' could mean I have read all that, or I can't be bothered to read all that, I will have to give you two answers.
To the former I say,
If you can't understand even after reading all that, then it is not my problem".
To the latter I say,
"If you are too lazy to read that, why should I spend my time explaining it to you personally".
/// nope. read all that aog. what exactly are edl protesting
about? ///
Since the word 'read' could mean I have read all that, or I can't be bothered to read all that, I will have to give you two answers.
To the former I say,
If you can't understand even after reading all that, then it is not my problem".
To the latter I say,
"If you are too lazy to read that, why should I spend my time explaining it to you personally".
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