ChatterBank2 mins ago
Slang and its' limits.
41 Answers
I have just heard a man talking on the streets of Manchester. He said, 'A now wot am sayin man, its da pigs dats da problem. De don no wats goin on in dis town cos de are pigs, man.
I would be ashamed if this was my son, if only for his lack of literacy. And by the way, he was white!
I would be ashamed if this was my son, if only for his lack of literacy. And by the way, he was white!
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I thought this was quite interesting as Stephen Fry might add!
Rhyming slang is believed to have originated in the mid-19th century in the East End of London, with several sources suggesting some time in the 1840s. it dates from around 1840 and arose in the East End of London, however John Camden Hotten in his 1859 Dictionary of Modern Slang, Cant and Vulgar Words states that (English) rhyming slang originated "about twelve or fifteen years ago" (i.e. in the 1840s) with 'chaunters' and 'patterers' in the Seven Dials area of Westminster. (The reference is to travelling salesmen of certain kinds. Chaunters sold sheet music and patterers offered cheap, tawdry goods at fairs and markets up and down the country). Hotten's Dictionary included a "Glossary of the Rhyming Slang", the first known such work. It included later mainstays such as "Frog and toad—the main road" and "Apples and pears—stairs" as well as many that later grew more obscure, e.g. "Battle of the Nile—a tile (vulgar term for a hat)", "Duke of York—take a walk", and "Top of Rome—home".
It remains a matter of speculation whether rhyming slang was a linguistic accident, a game, or a cryptolect developed intentionally to confuse non-locals. If deliberate, it may also have been used to maintain a sense of community. It is possible that it was used in the marketplace to allow traders to talk amongst themselves in order to facilitate collusion, without customers knowing what they were saying. Another suggestion is that it may have been used by criminals (see thieves' cant) to confuse the police.
Rhyming slang is believed to have originated in the mid-19th century in the East End of London, with several sources suggesting some time in the 1840s. it dates from around 1840 and arose in the East End of London, however John Camden Hotten in his 1859 Dictionary of Modern Slang, Cant and Vulgar Words states that (English) rhyming slang originated "about twelve or fifteen years ago" (i.e. in the 1840s) with 'chaunters' and 'patterers' in the Seven Dials area of Westminster. (The reference is to travelling salesmen of certain kinds. Chaunters sold sheet music and patterers offered cheap, tawdry goods at fairs and markets up and down the country). Hotten's Dictionary included a "Glossary of the Rhyming Slang", the first known such work. It included later mainstays such as "Frog and toad—the main road" and "Apples and pears—stairs" as well as many that later grew more obscure, e.g. "Battle of the Nile—a tile (vulgar term for a hat)", "Duke of York—take a walk", and "Top of Rome—home".
It remains a matter of speculation whether rhyming slang was a linguistic accident, a game, or a cryptolect developed intentionally to confuse non-locals. If deliberate, it may also have been used to maintain a sense of community. It is possible that it was used in the marketplace to allow traders to talk amongst themselves in order to facilitate collusion, without customers knowing what they were saying. Another suggestion is that it may have been used by criminals (see thieves' cant) to confuse the police.
Well let's take another example
Oh varda that bona chicken the one with the lovely dark riah, such a handsome eek.
I get the feeling that a number of you are ole enough to remember "round the Horn"
Polari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari (for those of you that aren't)
I can imagine an older generation giving similar abuse to those who used that
Some of these words like Barney, butch and camp etc have even punched through into common parlance
Oh varda that bona chicken the one with the lovely dark riah, such a handsome eek.
I get the feeling that a number of you are ole enough to remember "round the Horn"
Polari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari (for those of you that aren't)
I can imagine an older generation giving similar abuse to those who used that
Some of these words like Barney, butch and camp etc have even punched through into common parlance
Much of what you have describled involves the dropping of the "th" sound in favour of a "d".
This is exactly what happened in German over several centruies starting in High German and progressing to Low German. Consider the German words "die", "das" etc and check their English equivalents.
German and English actually came from the same beginings and the "th" was originally the sound of the Latin theta.
It is a natural progression for languages to drop the more complex sounds in favor of easer vocalisations. Similarly hard sound of "t" hence "boh'le" instead of "bottle".
Complaining about "wats" is really pushing the notion. How many people really pronounce the "h" in "what"?. The stupid h is silent in many other words anyway so who cares?
Language is dynamic. If nothing was ever allowed to change we would all be speaking in ancient languages incomprehensible to us. Moreover the decision to standardise English was made by a very small number of people who arbitrarily chose words and pronunciation as suited them.
Indeed it is clear that these self-appointed experts were actually quite stupid and left us with the legacy of the most ridiculous concoction of spelling of any language on the planet. Too bad George Bernard-Shaw wasn't around at the time.
Adopting a consistent phonetic spelling would have saved billions of hours spent learning this abortion of a written language. As an Italian friend pointed out to me once, "spelling" isn't a subject in Italian schools because words are consistently spelt how they sound.
This is exactly what happened in German over several centruies starting in High German and progressing to Low German. Consider the German words "die", "das" etc and check their English equivalents.
German and English actually came from the same beginings and the "th" was originally the sound of the Latin theta.
It is a natural progression for languages to drop the more complex sounds in favor of easer vocalisations. Similarly hard sound of "t" hence "boh'le" instead of "bottle".
Complaining about "wats" is really pushing the notion. How many people really pronounce the "h" in "what"?. The stupid h is silent in many other words anyway so who cares?
Language is dynamic. If nothing was ever allowed to change we would all be speaking in ancient languages incomprehensible to us. Moreover the decision to standardise English was made by a very small number of people who arbitrarily chose words and pronunciation as suited them.
Indeed it is clear that these self-appointed experts were actually quite stupid and left us with the legacy of the most ridiculous concoction of spelling of any language on the planet. Too bad George Bernard-Shaw wasn't around at the time.
Adopting a consistent phonetic spelling would have saved billions of hours spent learning this abortion of a written language. As an Italian friend pointed out to me once, "spelling" isn't a subject in Italian schools because words are consistently spelt how they sound.
Theta is a letter of the Greek alphabet. In Europe, only the Greek and English languages use the 'th' sound. The 'silent h' is used in many written words. It is placed after a consonant, or before a vowel, to indicate that the adjoining letter is to be pronounced in an aspirated, or 'breathed', fashion. e.g 'What' v. 'Watt', and 'hotel' = 'otel'. You could say its presence is an early attempt at phonetics. The letter 'L' is similarly used. Those who scoff at the Scots pronounciation of 'Kirkcaldy' (Kir-caw-dee) with its silent 'L', forget that the 'L' is also silent in the everyday English words of 'talk' and 'walk'. The 'L' has been inserted as a vowel pronunciation indicator
Heathfield, you say "Those who scoff at the Scots pronounciation of 'Kirkcaldy' (Kir-caw-dee) with its silent 'L', forget that the 'L' is also silent in the everyday English words of 'talk' and 'walk'. The 'L' has been inserted as a vowel pronunciation indicator".
I agree, but what is the explanation for the pronunciation of Milngavie?
I agree, but what is the explanation for the pronunciation of Milngavie?
Just one of those things, Duncer, common to the UK, where place-name spellings are often at odds with the pronunciation. Think of 'Ainster' for 'Anstruther'. There's no agreement about the origin of 'Mulguy' for 'Milngavie'. See what Wiki has to say abou it under History, here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milngavie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milngavie
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