How many more of these sad cases have to trudge through the courts before the law is changed?

[jake-the-peg]

Yet another badly damaged person just asking to allow a doctor to be allowed to end his life safe from prosecution

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19249680

And yet they won't take action if they go to Switzerland and act under the law there

Isn't this just a case of moral cowardice from successive governments of all persuasions?

[StarBeast]

The problem with this is that now he's made a fuss, like several before, Dianne Pretty(spelling?) for example, the authorities are now involved. I agree 100% with the right to die, unfortunately there is no civilised way to make it possible legally. I suppose I'm worried about the future were old and possibly "inconvenient" relatives become obligated to die, to not be a bother, so to speak. I don't see how legislation can help here. I imagine that many like this ("do not resucitate??") are allowed to pass away no questions asked but now it's public, no one is ever going to allow this and I cannot see how statute can be phrased to stop future oppurtunist potential legacees getting away with what amounts to murder.

[LazyGun]

Moral cowardice and a vocal minority who oppose a change in the law, largely it would seem for religious reasons.

Then there is the niggling worry that such a change would lead to a scenario whereby elderly relatives were pressured by unscrupulous relatives into euthenizing for inheritance purposes, or that, merely by having such a law, severely sick relatives might feel obligated to euthenize to save their family the bother of looking after them, or that stretched health services might be too enthusiastic in their interpretation of "do not resuscitate" instructions.

Evidence from the US and Holland would appear to suggest otherwise.I applaud individuals such as this whose aim is to raise public consciousness about this issue, and try to gain proper protection for family and friends.

attached is a link to an article by Raymond Tallis, Professor of Geriatric Medicine at the University of Manchester, and Chair of Healthcare Professionals for Assisted Dying that people might find of interest....

http://newhumanist.or...se-for-assisted-dying

[Quizmonster]

It surely cannot be beyond the wit of man and technology for some form of "living will" to be made legally permissible and actionable. Perhaps a videoed/recorded message attested to by two doctors and next-of-kin would suffice in such cases.
Tony Nicklinson, although a physical wreck, is clearly fully compos mentis and his torment must be utterly unimaginable, but even he would be capable of producing such a testament...indeed, he already has done in effect.
What truly annoys is the way in which religious people claim such a procedure would be "unethical"; yes, maybe in their case, but what gives them the right to claim that so must it be in mine, for example?
I totally accept the judge's claim, however, that it is not for the courts to make such decisions, so I agree completely with your claim of "moral cowardice from successive governments of all persuasions." Just as no American presidential candidate could conceivably parade his atheism, so do our political masters here avoid going against religious bigotry.
Certainly, I would not suggest that doctors should be somehow "compelled" to perform euthanasia, but there must be many of them who would be as willing to do so as there are vets content to put down suffering animals.

[jake-the-peg]

Is the suggestion that Switzerland is somehow "uncivilised".

My major objection is that we are in crazy situation where if someone goes abroard to Dignitas the CPS have guidace that aiding and abetting a suicide prosecutions are not in the public interest but if it happens in the UK they are!

[StarBeast]

No I'm not saying Switzerland is uncivilsed, I think my concerns are clear. Has anyone actually analysed those that go to Dignitas? What safe guards are there? From reading the lengths people will go to for "inheritence" the mistaken belief that they have a right to something that their parents earned. I just don't trust human nature. I have caracatured thoughts of 50-60 year olds marching their parents down to UK-Dignitas just after making sure the will is in order. Yes that's an extreme caracature, that's what frightens me. If the chap wants to die then give him a bottle of Scotch he can chose when to dies. I just don't see a legal way here. Far from moral cowardice, I think governments have stayed out of this for a good reason.

[emmie]

the sooner we go down that road, of sanctioning mercy deaths, then the sooner the weak and feeble will be forced out of this life, perhaps against their will. Perhaps that is emotive, it's meant to be. If i made a living will, become very sick, but change my mind but can't express it, that i do not want a mercy death, not really sure how to class it, then it would be too late. I fear that turning it into a law would see unscrupulous types dictating wills to their nearest and not so dearest and pressuring them into signing something they don't really want. Many elderly often feel a burden on their families, and if they have dementia and are not able to respond, what happens?

[jake-the-peg]

That's a valid concern but we have mechanisms for protecting vulnerable people in all sorts of situations.

In sectioning people under the mental health act two doctors (one usually a psychiatrist) and a sociual worker have to agree.

Such a tribunal would be the very minimum I'd envisage, indeed I could imagine a situation where a court order might be required in order to safeguard the applicant

Additionally this would not be an open option but one only available to people with particular and irreversible medical conditions.

Even with this there might be the odd case where that slips through but are you really going to tell people like this that they have to continue to live a life they detest because there *might* be a mistake?

Because you're scared something might happen to someone else?

We don't ban driving because there might be road accidents

[alan-r]

if you were in the position of Mr Nickleson you wouldn't be able to hold a bottle of scotch. If the person was bed ridden and you bought the scotch and left it for a terminally ill person to drink him/herself to death you'd culpable of assisted homicide
I myself would have no hesitation of giving my very long term partner a lethal dose of "whatever"if requested due to long term incurable and intolerable pain and suffering and to hell with the circumstances.and my partner would do likewise for me,hoping that day will never come.

[StarBeast]

Euthanasia goes on probably thousands of times a year without any such fuss. This case brings up the legal technicalities. As I said above if the guy wants to die it could have been enabled very simplty without all this publicity.

[emmie]

as someone who has been involved in mental health, there may be these safeguards, but that can be broken, have witnessed it with my own eyes.
A relative has severe problems, and quite honestly he would not be competent to make any kind of living will, so who would do it, in the event of his falling into dementia, alzheimers

[emmie]

it shouldn't be sanctioned by the state. Not ever.

[naomi24]

The scenario Em has illustrated is a different issue. If a person of sound mind and in possession of his mental faculties wants to end his life, that should be his choice - and if a medical practitioner has no objection to assisting him to a peaceful and pain-free end, that should be his choice. Bearing in mind the influence that religion has upon this country, it's a dilemma for governments, but no one and nothing - not even religion - has the right to demand that people continue to live against their will.

[emmie]

perhaps it is a different scenario, but having seen my o/h go through terrible pain and suffering i still couldn't make the decision to make it stop, that was left to another and i still have nightmares about it.

[naomi24]

I've been there too Em - and I have made the decision. I did the right thing and I have no regrets.

[emmie]

i couldn't and wouldn't, nor would i for anyone else.

[naomi24]

I know it isn't easy - but if you were in that situation, would you want someone to do it for you? I know I would.

[emmie]

it's too hard to think of something like that. I don't want someone to pull the plug even if it seems all is lost, perhaps it's clinging on, but i wouldn't know what else to do.

[naomi24]

Where there's pain and suffering and hopelessness, as difficult as it is, it's the kindest thing to do.

Got to dash. Bye for now. x

[LoftyLottie]

I feel the same as Naomi. The kindest thing we do for our pets when they are in pain and there no hope is let them go with help, yet we are not allowed to offer humans he same. I think, if I was ever put in the position to help a loved one end life wouldn't hesitate - I hope my loved ones would do it for me.

[emmie]

perhaps one only knows when that time comes.