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"shot For Going To School" - Bbc Documentary
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A heads up for those interested.
Documentary recounting Malala Yousafzai's story, and similar issues in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
http://
Documentary recounting Malala Yousafzai's story, and similar issues in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
http://
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"Negotiation" with someone does not mean you like them, or endorse their worldview.
Rare is the conflict that can be settled by military means. Almost always, there has to be a negotiated, political settlement.
Not entirely sure what you are trying to argue - are appear to be saying that the Taliban must be good and kind and beneficial souls,because the US are willing to negotiate with them. Is that your position? Because if so, it is facile.
There is little for anyone to admire about the Taliban philosophy.
This is the organisation that proudly claimed responsibility for shooting Malala.This is the organisation that banned education for girls. This is the organisation that attacked and bombed girls schools in Afghanistan, threatening and terrorising the girls and their families. We are now told that the Taliban are giving up their opposition to girls education - I guess we shall have to wait and see whether that is genuine.
Rare is the conflict that can be settled by military means. Almost always, there has to be a negotiated, political settlement.
Not entirely sure what you are trying to argue - are appear to be saying that the Taliban must be good and kind and beneficial souls,because the US are willing to negotiate with them. Is that your position? Because if so, it is facile.
There is little for anyone to admire about the Taliban philosophy.
This is the organisation that proudly claimed responsibility for shooting Malala.This is the organisation that banned education for girls. This is the organisation that attacked and bombed girls schools in Afghanistan, threatening and terrorising the girls and their families. We are now told that the Taliban are giving up their opposition to girls education - I guess we shall have to wait and see whether that is genuine.
////Rare is the conflict that can be settled by military means. Almost always, there has to be a negotiated, political settlement.////
I agree. But why they did not think about it when even UNO asked few countries not to start few wars. Why did they not think about it before few hundred thousand innocent people have been killed? Or is it the old stunt again that negotiate when you are stuck and we would settle the score later.
As for Taliban, Let me enlighten you. There are two type of Taliban. Afghan Taliban, fighting against USA & Co. And then there are Pakistani Taliban, who are all being funded by CIA and other agencies working against Pakistan. Go and search media and you would not find any reference to Pakistani Taliban until 2004. USA & co attacked Afghanistan in 2001 so why it took 3 more years for Pakistani Taliban to surface? Because that is when president Musharaf allowed CIA operations in Pakistani tribal areas as excuse they used was that they wanted to look for Osama bin Laden. And instead what they did was setup their network called Pakistani Taliban to start their desired attacks in Pakistan. Rest is long story and have been wasted time upon here.
If it is OK for USA to talk and have dialogue with Afghan Taliban then why do they now let Pakistan have dialogue or negotiation with Pakistani Taliban?
Em10 – No condemnation then and old excuse that what this thread is about. So why not start another thread for the other so many innocents?
I agree. But why they did not think about it when even UNO asked few countries not to start few wars. Why did they not think about it before few hundred thousand innocent people have been killed? Or is it the old stunt again that negotiate when you are stuck and we would settle the score later.
As for Taliban, Let me enlighten you. There are two type of Taliban. Afghan Taliban, fighting against USA & Co. And then there are Pakistani Taliban, who are all being funded by CIA and other agencies working against Pakistan. Go and search media and you would not find any reference to Pakistani Taliban until 2004. USA & co attacked Afghanistan in 2001 so why it took 3 more years for Pakistani Taliban to surface? Because that is when president Musharaf allowed CIA operations in Pakistani tribal areas as excuse they used was that they wanted to look for Osama bin Laden. And instead what they did was setup their network called Pakistani Taliban to start their desired attacks in Pakistan. Rest is long story and have been wasted time upon here.
If it is OK for USA to talk and have dialogue with Afghan Taliban then why do they now let Pakistan have dialogue or negotiation with Pakistani Taliban?
Em10 – No condemnation then and old excuse that what this thread is about. So why not start another thread for the other so many innocents?
One is reminding me what this thread is about and the other one is asking another question. But questions must be answered.
OK, my view about the education for women is very clear that every child should have a right to education. Islam put emphasis on education and there is no other religion that makes it compulsory for people to gain education. There are so many verses in Quran. Islam does not have problem with women or education for women. However few people do have issue and they are handful. World never knew about them before 9/11 and soon would not hear again once America will pull out of Afghanistan. Issues with education or women have nothing to do with any religion or any specific country. There are many countries that have same problem. I believe if left alone then few countries are quite capable of solving their own problems. But unfortunately it is same when we talk about poverty and children suffering in Africa for example. Because we ignore the core REASONS that why few countries are selling weapons to those countries for years that has created the situation where children are suffering now. Problem is that West gives weapons to anyone when it suits them, they accept (and give full support) to democracy where it suits them and dictator where it suits them. And even bigger problem is that West want everyone else to dress (or undress), smile, cry, live or die the way they want them to. And they forget that others have their own way of life.
OK, my view about the education for women is very clear that every child should have a right to education. Islam put emphasis on education and there is no other religion that makes it compulsory for people to gain education. There are so many verses in Quran. Islam does not have problem with women or education for women. However few people do have issue and they are handful. World never knew about them before 9/11 and soon would not hear again once America will pull out of Afghanistan. Issues with education or women have nothing to do with any religion or any specific country. There are many countries that have same problem. I believe if left alone then few countries are quite capable of solving their own problems. But unfortunately it is same when we talk about poverty and children suffering in Africa for example. Because we ignore the core REASONS that why few countries are selling weapons to those countries for years that has created the situation where children are suffering now. Problem is that West gives weapons to anyone when it suits them, they accept (and give full support) to democracy where it suits them and dictator where it suits them. And even bigger problem is that West want everyone else to dress (or undress), smile, cry, live or die the way they want them to. And they forget that others have their own way of life.
Keyplus - Thank you for your response. I was happy to hear what you had to say in your first few sentences but you had to spoil it with your lengthy qualifiers. Can I suggest that you raise those issues in your own question at another time. It should make an interesting debate.
All I was asking from you was your own personal opinion with regard to the place of women in Islamic society. It wasn't clear from some of your earlier comments what your position was.
All I was asking from you was your own personal opinion with regard to the place of women in Islamic society. It wasn't clear from some of your earlier comments what your position was.
Keyplus, Ahh, you missed me. How nice. Sorry for the delay - I had to go out. I regret the killing of any innocent party, but unlike the children whose presence is known but ignored when they are deliberately blown to smithereens by their own people - or shot in the head for wanting an education - the presence of those you are talking about is not apparent – and that’s the difference.
//And even bigger problem is that West want everyone else to dress (or undress), smile, cry, live or die the way they want them to. And they forget that others have their own way of life. //
So speaks the man who tells us that Muslims come to the west not for a better life, but to show us the way, the man who would welcome Sharia Law to this country – and the man who relishes the idea of the flag of Islam flying over Downing Street.
Now can we get back to the original issue?
//And even bigger problem is that West want everyone else to dress (or undress), smile, cry, live or die the way they want them to. And they forget that others have their own way of life. //
So speaks the man who tells us that Muslims come to the west not for a better life, but to show us the way, the man who would welcome Sharia Law to this country – and the man who relishes the idea of the flag of Islam flying over Downing Street.
Now can we get back to the original issue?
No simple condemnation yet. It is over 5 years and still I have to find a single person on this website who can repeat my very simple and unbiased words.
“I condemn killing of all and any innocent person of any age, sex, race or religion, who belong to any country and lives anywhere, by anyone individual or an army.”
Now what is controversial in the above words? But few people can’t repeat these words for a reason unknown to me. Because you do not have to give a reason if you have a biased brain and for few people it is very important to know who got killed (even if it is a child) and by whom , before they could condemn it or hail it. No wonder this world is becoming a very dangerous place,
“A society can survive with sins but cannot survive with injustice (double starndards)” Ali Ibne Abi Talib (RA)
“I condemn killing of all and any innocent person of any age, sex, race or religion, who belong to any country and lives anywhere, by anyone individual or an army.”
Now what is controversial in the above words? But few people can’t repeat these words for a reason unknown to me. Because you do not have to give a reason if you have a biased brain and for few people it is very important to know who got killed (even if it is a child) and by whom , before they could condemn it or hail it. No wonder this world is becoming a very dangerous place,
“A society can survive with sins but cannot survive with injustice (double starndards)” Ali Ibne Abi Talib (RA)
Chrisgel - I can give you long copy and paste stuff or many websites about "place of women in Islamic society", but then you would not read it or would say that it needs a different thread. So I will tell you about an easy way to find out about a women's place in Islamic society? Just ask any women who converted to Islam and I am sure you would find one or two very close to wherever you live. After all first hand knowledge is always better than anything else.
Keyplus, you are disingenuous. It was established long ago that your interpretation of ‘innocent’ doesn’t necessarily match other people’s. Strange you mention that this world is becoming a dangerous place, but conveniently neglect to mention that Islam is more often than not these days instrumental in creating that danger.
This is worth reading if you want more examples of indefensible madness..
http://
http://
I would quite happily endorse this sentiment of yours, Keyplus, so that rather takes the wind out of those particular sails of yours, doesn't it?
“I condemn killing of all and any innocent person of any age, sex, race or religion, who belong to any country and lives anywhere, by anyone individual or an army.”
As Naomi points out though, the devil is always in the detail. Who gets to define innocence?
There are not 2 types of Taliban. There is one taliban movement that crosses the national borders between afghanistan and pakistan, and zealously promotes a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, resulting in deliberately targeting a young girl for being outspoken about wanting an education. Such extremist interpretations are invidious and loathsome. Instead of condemning such organisations though, you try to mitigate it by claiming some sort of conspiracy.
Again, as Naomi has pointed out, those drone strikes that have killed civilians and children were targeted at alleged combatants, and were tragically the collateral damage of a war. Myself I think the US are not morally justified in the extent of drone strikes they have employed in sovereign states with whom they are supposedly allies - I regard drone strikes as immoral in almost all circumstances -but you cannot equate accidental collateral damage, however tragic and grevious, with a policy of targeted termination of those that are perceived as a threat to your ideology merely by speaking their mind and challenging your ideology.
“I condemn killing of all and any innocent person of any age, sex, race or religion, who belong to any country and lives anywhere, by anyone individual or an army.”
As Naomi points out though, the devil is always in the detail. Who gets to define innocence?
There are not 2 types of Taliban. There is one taliban movement that crosses the national borders between afghanistan and pakistan, and zealously promotes a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, resulting in deliberately targeting a young girl for being outspoken about wanting an education. Such extremist interpretations are invidious and loathsome. Instead of condemning such organisations though, you try to mitigate it by claiming some sort of conspiracy.
Again, as Naomi has pointed out, those drone strikes that have killed civilians and children were targeted at alleged combatants, and were tragically the collateral damage of a war. Myself I think the US are not morally justified in the extent of drone strikes they have employed in sovereign states with whom they are supposedly allies - I regard drone strikes as immoral in almost all circumstances -but you cannot equate accidental collateral damage, however tragic and grevious, with a policy of targeted termination of those that are perceived as a threat to your ideology merely by speaking their mind and challenging your ideology.
-- answer removed --
Just a thought, but in my experience the documentary accurately portrays the living conditions of those people – and the hospitals they are obliged to use – so I have to ask why Islamic fundamentalists are so keen to see their ‘way of life’, as Keyplus puts it, replicated here? Can that really be preferable? Keyplus?
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