ChatterBank1 min ago
Do We Need God?
53 Answers
The Bible tells us that man has an inborn spiritual yearning. - Matthew 5 v 3.
But some people feel that they have no need for God because they find many puzzling issues in life incompatible with belief in a loving God.
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But some people feel that they have no need for God because they find many puzzling issues in life incompatible with belief in a loving God.
Enter Further Question Details Here...
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Naomi - //It strikes me that dependence upon God is akin to unnecessary dependence upon a drug. I have a friend who 20 years ago was finding it difficult to conduct a normal lifestyle and was prescribed anti-depressants. She’s still taking them because she tells herself that she can’t do without them, but the reality is that nothing has changed. She still can’t conduct a normal lifestyle. //
Do you have experience of anti-depressant medication?
I only query this because you advise that your friend's reason for continued use of her medication is that 'she tells herself that she can't live without them, but the reality is that nothing has changed'.
I am intrigued by your perception - is this something your friend has told you, or is it your understanding of her situation?
Do you have experience of anti-depressant medication?
I only query this because you advise that your friend's reason for continued use of her medication is that 'she tells herself that she can't live without them, but the reality is that nothing has changed'.
I am intrigued by your perception - is this something your friend has told you, or is it your understanding of her situation?
ummmm - //I don't understand it. My mother is a born again Christian. Everything is down to God but it seems only the good things. She is living a lovely life which is Gods will (she does deserve a good life) but it's very hard to not point out that it's my granddads money she's living a lovely life on. //
I guess if you are leading a nice life, being a Christian is commensurately easy.
The hard part must be being a Christian in an earthquake zone, or when your baby dies, or you contract cancer. That is where the 'God's purpose' but comes in - if you can use that as comfort, then fine.
I guess if you are leading a nice life, being a Christian is commensurately easy.
The hard part must be being a Christian in an earthquake zone, or when your baby dies, or you contract cancer. That is where the 'God's purpose' but comes in - if you can use that as comfort, then fine.
Naomi - //andy-hughes, Yes, I do have experience of anti-depressant medication. My perception of my friend’s situation emanates from a lifetime of personal experience of her behavior. //
Thanks for clarifying.
Do I understand that your experience of anti-depressant medication is direct, rather than through your observation of your friend?
I do find the parallel interesting - are you inferring that some people rely on God because they tell themselves that he exists, and to tell themselves otherwise would remove a support system in their lives?
Thanks for clarifying.
Do I understand that your experience of anti-depressant medication is direct, rather than through your observation of your friend?
I do find the parallel interesting - are you inferring that some people rely on God because they tell themselves that he exists, and to tell themselves otherwise would remove a support system in their lives?
Now, it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some have chosen to see it as the final proof of the NON-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
She had a very hard childhood and had to work hard all her life. I think that God has brought her comfort and I'm happy enough with that. Just sometimes it drives me crazy. Like the fact it hasn't rained on our planned day out is because she prayed for it.
On the flip side....she has a great sense of humour. A very young and active 62 year old.
With religion brings worry. I know she worries about me and the fact I haven't asked Jesus into my heart.....and I'm going to hell :-)
On the flip side....she has a great sense of humour. A very young and active 62 year old.
With religion brings worry. I know she worries about me and the fact I haven't asked Jesus into my heart.....and I'm going to hell :-)
ummmm - //With religion brings worry. I know she worries about me and the fact I haven't asked Jesus into my heart.....and I'm going to hell :-) //
That has always been my major bugbear with Christians - the attitude that they proffer, with varyng degrees of sanctimony, that they have something I need, and I am living in ignorance and would be happier with their belief system.
I find Christians are like football fans, or stamp collectors, or Ku Klux Klan members - it is the 'belonging' that gives them a sense of comfort, and most 'belongers' would like it if others 'belonged' as well, and can't imagine that there are plenty of people who simply don't need that security blanket.
That has always been my major bugbear with Christians - the attitude that they proffer, with varyng degrees of sanctimony, that they have something I need, and I am living in ignorance and would be happier with their belief system.
I find Christians are like football fans, or stamp collectors, or Ku Klux Klan members - it is the 'belonging' that gives them a sense of comfort, and most 'belongers' would like it if others 'belonged' as well, and can't imagine that there are plenty of people who simply don't need that security blanket.
andy-hughes, I have personal experience of anti-depressant medication.
//are you inferring that some people rely on God because they tell themselves that he exists, and to tell themselves otherwise would remove a support system in their lives?//
No, I’m suggesting that they’re under the impression that without a belief in God - their support system, to use your terminology - they couldn’t manage. That is borne out by at least two posts on the previous page which led me to make the analogy.
//are you inferring that some people rely on God because they tell themselves that he exists, and to tell themselves otherwise would remove a support system in their lives?//
No, I’m suggesting that they’re under the impression that without a belief in God - their support system, to use your terminology - they couldn’t manage. That is borne out by at least two posts on the previous page which led me to make the analogy.
It's weird. I hate all the God talk but I used to love going to her church. Really good fun. They also used to do day trips for the kids with the cost mainly covered by the church. According to my kids there was never any preaching on these trips...just a nice day out. When I see how they try and help the disadvantaged I can't help thinking that Christianity is not a bad thing.
Obviously extremes of any religion is a bad thing.
Obviously extremes of any religion is a bad thing.
Naomi - //are you inferring that some people rely on God because they tell themselves that he exists, and to tell themselves otherwise would remove a support system in their lives?//
No, I’m suggesting that they’re under the impression that without a belief in God - their support system, to use your terminology - they couldn’t manage. That is borne out by at least two posts on the previous page which led me to make the analogy. //
Unless I am mis-reading, I think that is saying the same thing.
But to return to your point about your friend's anti-depressant medication - if she takes them because she tells herself she needs them, then maybe she actually doesn't.
That said, if she has been prescribed for this length of time, then surely she must have been reviewed by her GP - I don't believe they are allowed to simply roll over prescriptions without a regular consultation and review. So maybe her GP has judged that she is still in need of the medication.
No, I’m suggesting that they’re under the impression that without a belief in God - their support system, to use your terminology - they couldn’t manage. That is borne out by at least two posts on the previous page which led me to make the analogy. //
Unless I am mis-reading, I think that is saying the same thing.
But to return to your point about your friend's anti-depressant medication - if she takes them because she tells herself she needs them, then maybe she actually doesn't.
That said, if she has been prescribed for this length of time, then surely she must have been reviewed by her GP - I don't believe they are allowed to simply roll over prescriptions without a regular consultation and review. So maybe her GP has judged that she is still in need of the medication.
andy-hughes, //Unless I am mis-reading, I think that is saying the same thing.//
Not really. They want to believe that God exists and that he cares for them, so regardless of the unanswered prayers and the trials and tribulations of life they cling to that belief, and therefore the support system is never removed.
//So maybe her GP has judged that she is still in need of the medication..//
Yes, because she thinks she needs the tablets so doesn’t admit – even to herself – that they’re not curing the problem. Her GP knows nothing of the abandoned flights and parties and so he continues to prescribe.
Not really. They want to believe that God exists and that he cares for them, so regardless of the unanswered prayers and the trials and tribulations of life they cling to that belief, and therefore the support system is never removed.
//So maybe her GP has judged that she is still in need of the medication..//
Yes, because she thinks she needs the tablets so doesn’t admit – even to herself – that they’re not curing the problem. Her GP knows nothing of the abandoned flights and parties and so he continues to prescribe.
Telepathy: probably one of the cruellest of all social diseases, in the galaxy.
If god existed, I would pity them.
Imagine the workload. Getting people through their day, making sure fifty quarterbacks got their tricky field goals in that stiff crosswind, getting 50 yard U-shaped putts to go in the hole, stopping it from raining in a certain place on Ummmm's mum's family day out.
It's a wonder the planet isn't ravaged by pollution, famine, droughts, floods, storms, species extinctions, floating islands of crumbling plastic, war, rape, violence, sedition and other general chaos.
Oh!?
Still has time for a sense of humour though: any remotely interesting thing happening in the night sky and s/he pulls a veil of cloud across, to ruin it.
Or did some swine actually *pray* for that?
If god existed, I would pity them.
Imagine the workload. Getting people through their day, making sure fifty quarterbacks got their tricky field goals in that stiff crosswind, getting 50 yard U-shaped putts to go in the hole, stopping it from raining in a certain place on Ummmm's mum's family day out.
It's a wonder the planet isn't ravaged by pollution, famine, droughts, floods, storms, species extinctions, floating islands of crumbling plastic, war, rape, violence, sedition and other general chaos.
Oh!?
Still has time for a sense of humour though: any remotely interesting thing happening in the night sky and s/he pulls a veil of cloud across, to ruin it.
Or did some swine actually *pray* for that?
-- answer removed --
@naillit
//From my reading of the bible it appears that God needs us...to satisfy his pathological need to be worshipped. //
I have been resisting the temptation to refer to the 16-bit era video game Populous for many months, awaiting a suitable cue. Thanks for providing it.
Growing a population and getting them praying to you (your character, that is) generated "mana" which you then used to inflict disasters on the computer-controlled opponent population and... basically commit genocide. Level after level.
For ages 10 and up, I think it said, on the box.
I fear it lies outside the sphere of interest of most of the contributors on this forum (I was well above its target age group, at the time, as are many video-game addicts of past decades) but the "God simulation" game genre is still with us today. Despite this, not a single city mayor or politician would publicly admit to being a Sim City player, for instance. Its inbuilt economic principles are too simplistic to teach us lessons applicable to the real world.
Anyway, the basic assumption of Populous was that of a polytheistic universe, with the gods competing for adherents and converts. They lurrrve converts, for some reason.
Is there any kind of person in life less faithful than a convert? If they so willingly abandoned the religion they grew up with and lived years of their life wrapped in, how faithful could they possibly be to one they just picked up recently?
//From my reading of the bible it appears that God needs us...to satisfy his pathological need to be worshipped. //
I have been resisting the temptation to refer to the 16-bit era video game Populous for many months, awaiting a suitable cue. Thanks for providing it.
Growing a population and getting them praying to you (your character, that is) generated "mana" which you then used to inflict disasters on the computer-controlled opponent population and... basically commit genocide. Level after level.
For ages 10 and up, I think it said, on the box.
I fear it lies outside the sphere of interest of most of the contributors on this forum (I was well above its target age group, at the time, as are many video-game addicts of past decades) but the "God simulation" game genre is still with us today. Despite this, not a single city mayor or politician would publicly admit to being a Sim City player, for instance. Its inbuilt economic principles are too simplistic to teach us lessons applicable to the real world.
Anyway, the basic assumption of Populous was that of a polytheistic universe, with the gods competing for adherents and converts. They lurrrve converts, for some reason.
Is there any kind of person in life less faithful than a convert? If they so willingly abandoned the religion they grew up with and lived years of their life wrapped in, how faithful could they possibly be to one they just picked up recently?
//Is there any kind of person in life less faithful than a convert? If they so willingly abandoned the religion they grew up with and lived years of their life wrapped in, how faithful could they possibly be to one they just picked up recently? //
Good observation. According to studies in the US, a very high proportion of converts to Islam - at least those who don't convert because they marry and stay married to a Muslim - abandon their new found faith within five years. I can't be bothered at this late hour to find a link but if anyone wants to check, the information is freely available.
Good observation. According to studies in the US, a very high proportion of converts to Islam - at least those who don't convert because they marry and stay married to a Muslim - abandon their new found faith within five years. I can't be bothered at this late hour to find a link but if anyone wants to check, the information is freely available.
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