Another Belter From The Judiciary!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36082621
Why can we not staff our system with people who are not so gullible?

[EDDIE51]

As we can never know the evidence or the full story how can we comment?

[ToraToraTora]

he was found guilty of inflicting head injuries in 2007, now he's murdered her. what more information do you need?

[EDDIE51]

TTT, the Social Services operate in almost total secrecy in cases involving potential harm to children, the case would not even be heard in open court.
The court would be closed to all except the legal representatives the SS rep and the judge , no reporting allowed. So we can never be in a position to judge who was or was not gullible!

[ToraToraTora]

so the BBC have made it up?

[EDDIE51]

He was found guilty but the conviction was quashed ! read your own link!
We can never know why the evidence was quashed or why he was convicted in the first place. We can not judge something we know nothing about!

[EDDIE51]

No the BBC have not made it up, they can only report the bare fact that the conviction was quashed. Neither you, me or the BBC can ever know the evidence that was presented in the case or the arguments made by either side.

[ToraToraTora]

my money's on guilty and thus another preventable death of a child.

[Zacs-Master]

Eddie, these seem to be facts from the article. I think if I had been a juror there would only be one conclusion:

Ellie's mother Jennie Gray, [ ]has admitted perverting the course of justice by giving a false account of what she did on the day Ellie died.

Jurors were told Mr Butler caused "catastrophic" head injuries to Ellie at their home in Westover Close, Sutton in south-west London, while Ms Gray was at work in October 2013.

there were also underlying brain and eye injuries as well as bruises consistent with fingers gripping under her jaw, jurors heard.

Ellie's mother also searched the internet for "magic spells to make him love me again" and "urgent spell to make him be sorry for hurting me".

[ToraToraTora]

steady zacs, eddie might start to think I'm right if you carry on like that!

[Zacs-Master]

Apologies for actually reading the article Tora. I know it's not normal practise on AB.

[ToraToraTora]

I did read it but like a lot of these stories people seem to want to have a pop at me rather than address the point.

[EDDIE51]

I would agree that it looks like a Guilty verdict. But your contention that the High Court who quashed the original conviction must have been 'Gullible' can never be sustained. It was not a spur of the moment decision it took a 3 year court fight. Looks more like a very clever and determined couple managed to put sufficient dought in the Judges mind to get the conviction overturned. There would be no jury in a case like this.

[Zacs-Master]

Jesus. I've just chocked on my museli. A BA from Tora!

[Zacs-Master]

Missed the 'jurors heard' bit Eddie?

[EDDIE51]

Zacs-Master that is the current on going murder trial.
This thread is about the previous conviction for causing head injury's 7 years ago which was quashed 3 years later!

[Zacs-Master]

Do you have any proof that that trial wasn't by jury?

[EDDIE51]

Which trial are you talking about TTT the current one or one 7 years ago which was quashed? I am talking about the quashed conviction. I have already agreed that this time it is going to be guilty.( Just heard on the TV news that he has been found guilty.)
The high Court hearing to over turn the guilty verdict would not have had a jury! this trial is a 'normal' trial and has a jury.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes .

[Zacs-Master]

Eddie, your first comment was 'how can we comment'. I pointed out that there is plenty of evidence to enable us to come to a conclusion. You eventually agreed. Whether there was a jury or not is irrelevant to the current situation especially as he's been found guilty!

[EDDIE51]

Zacs the original trial for the head injuries would have had a jury.
The high court hearing that quashed the conviction would not have had a Jury. This current murder trial has a jury . There have been 2 trials both with a Jury and one High court hearing that would not have had a Jury.
The' hearing' would have had 1 main judge and two 'assistant' judges but no jury!

[ToraToraTora]

what I'm saying is that he did it in 2007 and should not have been let out to murder the child.