Business & Finance0 min ago
'gender Choice' Being Tought To Children.
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Do you agree with Pope Francis, either for his reasons or your own?
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All history shows is that some societies lumped all those who didn't feel part of one of the standard two genders together, labelled them something, like "third gender" and, by and large, accepted them. And individuals may well have been accepted by the society they were in also.
I don't see evidence of agreeing that those in the group actually were the opposite gender to that which they were born, as PC society tends to do in order to not offend the group. (If there were societies that did then they would have been early PC adopters.)
I don't see evidence of agreeing that those in the group actually were the opposite gender to that which they were born, as PC society tends to do in order to not offend the group. (If there were societies that did then they would have been early PC adopters.)
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beso; //You have left out the left-handed, redheads, short-statured and dark-skinned people because you arbitrarily chose the minorities based on your personal prejudices.//
No, I left them out because they are not forcing an agenda on anyone, particularly children. If left-handed people had been teaching children that the choice was theirs to be left or right handed I would include them in a list of tyrannical minorities.
No, I left them out because they are not forcing an agenda on anyone, particularly children. If left-handed people had been teaching children that the choice was theirs to be left or right handed I would include them in a list of tyrannical minorities.
I don't think it's necessarily true that a "young mind" finds these issues confusing -- indeed, if anything the later you leave it the harder it becomes to confront the issues with anything like the right approach (OG's post being an unfortunate case in point, although of course he'll disagree with me for saying so). Children can cope with issues like this quite easily if given the chance.
It is confusing to transmit mixed messages to children for sure, but that's only a problem when, say, the messages coming from home and from school differ. Essentially children don't think this is an issue at all, at least not by default, and only would struggle to deal with it if presented as such.
From my perspective the problems with children then come because some parents aren't ready to accept the status of transgender people -- as is their choice -- and spread this onto their children and others. It's really not necessary or pleasant, as no threat is posed by accepting transgenderism, no lives irreparably damaged by allowing people to be open about it. Quite the reverse, in fact, and so many lives have been damaged, broken or destroyed because people could not be open about who they were.
For sure, transgenderism is not a choice, except maybe in the sense of choosing to accept who you really are. But something is wrong with a society that sees tolerating this and encouraging the acceptance of self-identity as a position worth insulting.
It is confusing to transmit mixed messages to children for sure, but that's only a problem when, say, the messages coming from home and from school differ. Essentially children don't think this is an issue at all, at least not by default, and only would struggle to deal with it if presented as such.
From my perspective the problems with children then come because some parents aren't ready to accept the status of transgender people -- as is their choice -- and spread this onto their children and others. It's really not necessary or pleasant, as no threat is posed by accepting transgenderism, no lives irreparably damaged by allowing people to be open about it. Quite the reverse, in fact, and so many lives have been damaged, broken or destroyed because people could not be open about who they were.
For sure, transgenderism is not a choice, except maybe in the sense of choosing to accept who you really are. But something is wrong with a society that sees tolerating this and encouraging the acceptance of self-identity as a position worth insulting.
Because they're going to meet the people it does affect eventually, or interact with them one way or another... as and when that happens it's probably better that they do so with respect, which is probably easier if the topic has been brought up beforehand. And besides, what do you say to the minority of children that it affects directly? "Sorry, but you'll have to wait until you are 18 before anybody cares", perhaps?
As long as the topic is brought up tactfully the only people who might be affected negatively are adults stuck with views that they should be leaving behind anyway.
As long as the topic is brought up tactfully the only people who might be affected negatively are adults stuck with views that they should be leaving behind anyway.
wht do you have against glabal warmers khandro? It seems a rather ridiculous thing to be against. Either global warming is real or it isn't. If not real, then putting resources into alternative energy won't do any harm and will hopefully give us power for when fossil fuels run out. If it is real, the putting resources into alternative energy may prevent life from expiring, and hopefully give us power for when fossil fuels run out. Seems win-win to me!
jim; //I don't think it's necessarily true that a "young mind" finds these issues confusing -//
It sounds to me as if you haven't had a lot of experience of bringing up children - am I correct? The younger children are, the easier it is to influence them. ISIS has 6-year-olds assassinating grown tied and bound men. Tonight's news showed 4-year-old Chinese children being 'tortured' into attempting to become potential Olympic gold-medalists. The Jesuits famously said: "Give me the child and I'll give you the man".
bednobs; I should have said Man-made global warming.
It sounds to me as if you haven't had a lot of experience of bringing up children - am I correct? The younger children are, the easier it is to influence them. ISIS has 6-year-olds assassinating grown tied and bound men. Tonight's news showed 4-year-old Chinese children being 'tortured' into attempting to become potential Olympic gold-medalists. The Jesuits famously said: "Give me the child and I'll give you the man".
bednobs; I should have said Man-made global warming.
naomi //I see no reason why the majority of children, who don't have issues, should be obliged to confront it at all.//
Then let's stop teaching children about things like Autism Spectrum Disorders and Down's Syndrome because the vast majority of them don't have these issues either. @@
You have arbitrarily decided that some parts of the diversity of the human condition aren't relevant.
We teach children about these conditions so that they understand and act appropriately should they encounter them in people they meet during their life.
Then let's stop teaching children about things like Autism Spectrum Disorders and Down's Syndrome because the vast majority of them don't have these issues either. @@
You have arbitrarily decided that some parts of the diversity of the human condition aren't relevant.
We teach children about these conditions so that they understand and act appropriately should they encounter them in people they meet during their life.
naomi//it's selfish to expect other people’s children to be burdened with your problems. Your problems are yours to deal with.//
By and large, the problems that LGBTI people have to deal with are the attitudes of people who, like you, don't accept that they have a right to the respect of the community solely because they don't fit the narrow minded idea of "normal".
//I don’t believe in worrying or confusing little children.//
How it is "worrying" or "confusing" to explain reality to children? What is confusing is that they see some people are vilified for not fitting the norms, especially when they later find out that a friend they have known all their life turns out to be among the LGBTI.
You are simply projecting your ignorance and personal prejudices. I had expected better of you.
I was with my nine year old granddaughter when her mother explained that some people prefer a partner the same sex as them. The little girl's response, "Really, I didn't know that."
A few months later she didn't even bat an eyelid when told her great uncle's partner was a man. He had just "come out" at forty something after living a life of secrecy.
By and large, the problems that LGBTI people have to deal with are the attitudes of people who, like you, don't accept that they have a right to the respect of the community solely because they don't fit the narrow minded idea of "normal".
//I don’t believe in worrying or confusing little children.//
How it is "worrying" or "confusing" to explain reality to children? What is confusing is that they see some people are vilified for not fitting the norms, especially when they later find out that a friend they have known all their life turns out to be among the LGBTI.
You are simply projecting your ignorance and personal prejudices. I had expected better of you.
I was with my nine year old granddaughter when her mother explained that some people prefer a partner the same sex as them. The little girl's response, "Really, I didn't know that."
A few months later she didn't even bat an eyelid when told her great uncle's partner was a man. He had just "come out" at forty something after living a life of secrecy.
I worded that wrong, sorry.
I meant we don't need to go into great details. I knew about gender choices from a very young age because of one of the customers who drank in our pub. I asked my mum, she explained, I accepted it.
IMO the problem here is with adults, adults that don't accept it and refuse to teach their children that people are different and you don't judge them for it.
I meant we don't need to go into great details. I knew about gender choices from a very young age because of one of the customers who drank in our pub. I asked my mum, she explained, I accepted it.
IMO the problem here is with adults, adults that don't accept it and refuse to teach their children that people are different and you don't judge them for it.
Personally I think beso's got it right. The comparison to autism is obviously not perfect but is so far as a) children are going to meet such people inevitably, and b) it doesn't take too long to explain the topic to a child as you don't need to go into details beyond "some people just are that way and there is nothing wrong with this", then both issues deserve being addressed even at a very young age. Perhaps not as a matter of course, but certainly as soon as the topic emerges naturally.
It's certainly not about projecting my problems onto children, or burdening them with anything, which is a scurrilous accusation. Quite the opposite, if anything, because the message we'd be trying to pass on is that it's not a problem, and the earlier the issue is addressed respectfully the easier that is to achieve.
As long as there is no sense that the child has a "choice" exactly then there is no harm done by teaching tolerance and respect for those who are different. Except, possibly, to adults who can't let go of outdated attitudes. It is as simple as that.
It's certainly not about projecting my problems onto children, or burdening them with anything, which is a scurrilous accusation. Quite the opposite, if anything, because the message we'd be trying to pass on is that it's not a problem, and the earlier the issue is addressed respectfully the easier that is to achieve.
As long as there is no sense that the child has a "choice" exactly then there is no harm done by teaching tolerance and respect for those who are different. Except, possibly, to adults who can't let go of outdated attitudes. It is as simple as that.
Jim, I’m guessing that had I compared the transgender issue with Autism Spectrum Disorders and Down's Syndrome, your response would have been very different. You might even have deemed the suggestion ‘scurrilous’.
No one has suggested that we shouldn’t teach tolerance – simply that we shouldn’t confuse children by introducing to them aspects of life they have no reason to concern themselves with.
No one has suggested that we shouldn’t teach tolerance – simply that we shouldn’t confuse children by introducing to them aspects of life they have no reason to concern themselves with.
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