Is Poverty A Necessary Evil?

[dave50]

Some say that poverty should be eradicated especially amongst children, which follows that the parents of said children should also be lifted out of poverty. So that means that everyone, whoever they are should have access to decent housing, warmth, food ,clothing etc. If that was the case, where is the incentive to go out to work? It is only the threat of poverty that can force some to get off their backsides and find work. I think it's an unrealistic dream that doesn't account for human nature.

[EDDIE51]

There is a minimum number of 'contribution years' needed to qualify for state pension or Pension credit. But presumably you could qualify by being 'on the dole' for 32 years?

[EDDIE51]

I could have got a higher state pension if I had not been 'contracted out' for some years but , I see what you mean, as once I qualified for Pension credit it would still have been a 'top up' but not as much. The end result is the same, pension credit tops up what ever other income you have once you reach pension age.

[Baldric]

And my point @ 1805 Mikey?

[jourdain2]

My schoolfriend (who worked for about 8 years) gets a full pension. I don't begrudge it - she had undiagnosed twins instead of No.3 - the birth was botched and the twins were brain-damaged. After years o f coping heroically on her own and her marriage disintegrating, she had a major, major breakdown (ended in intensive care -I was frantically ringing from France). She needs looking after and that is what the Welfare State should do I.M.O..

But, I don't get a full pension, worked as much as I could, balancing my maternal role with teaching. Did years on 'Supply' which is hard if you do it right, but did not (then) qualify for contributing toTeacher's Pension.

So, I have helped to provide for my friend, but receive a lot less than her. Seems odd.

OP Someone has to be at the bottom. Mum considered that there was no more poverty because every child had shoes - children went barefoot when she was young. It is relative.

[EDDIE51]

Have you looked at Pension Credit jourdain? I ask because it is the most under claimed of all benefits. I have met 5 of my former workmates all retired, none of them was claiming Pension Credit until I told them to try to get it, now they all do!!

[New Judge]

I think you have my point now, Eddie.

People who do no work throughout their lives will receive from the State far more than somebody who has paid in full NI contributions such as you have. Their payments may be dressed up under different names, but they will receive the guaranteed minimum level of support and it will all be paid for by the State. Those who are “rich” (and who have paid considerable sums in NI) will get just the basic State pension (and will have to pay for all the tings those who have paid nothing receive for free). The State pension scheme would be perfectly sustainable if it made payments relative to contributions. But it does not. People who have spent their lives whilst of working age on benefits move smoothly to “retirement” age benefits. Their payments are not pensions.

This is the “warped universe” to which Deskdiary refers. It is the universe where people like you, who have made considerable (compulsory) contributions to the national pot in the understanding you will receive payments when you retire, get far less out of that pot than somebody who has contributed absolutely nothing.

The above should not apply to people who have been unable to work and so make the necessary contributions. They deserve all the help the State can provide and there would be far more funds available if those who will not help themselves were reduced to real poverty – because that’s what they deserve. That's where poverty becomes a necessary evil because it's the only language the feckless understand.

[Bigbad]

People have children when they have no means of supporting them: Can’t feed ‘em. don’t breed ‘em.
And whilst I accept that circumstances can change after you have children, (we’ve probably all been through tough times) there are far too many people happy to breed knowing that the Welfare State will support them.

[dave50]

There is now nothing approaching poverty anywhere in this country - it is simply a politically expedient definition. The concept of welfare has changed from relieving hardship to supporting lifestyle. Consequently the bill for benefits has exploded. Trying to cut the cost is impossible without withdrawing 'luxuries' from people who have become dependent on them. We are where we are because of the generosity of successive governments with taxpayers' monies and their frivolous attitude to borrowing to fund expenditure. Eventually it will become unsustainable.
I read this in another publication so I just had to quote, it is absolutely spot on.

[nailit]

//There is now nothing approaching poverty anywhere in this country//
Early this morning I gave a pound to someone who was just waking up in a sleeping bag in a shop doorway...
Yeah, nothing approaching poverty in this country is there?

[New Judge]

"Early this morning I gave a pound to someone who was just waking up in a sleeping bag in a shop doorway..."

Did you ask him how he came to be there?