Do You Agree That The Objective In Fox Hunting Is Not Only To Eradicate Pests (Like Foxes) But Is Also A Sport Which Combines Horse Riding In The Countryside With Hunting With A Pack Of Dogs

[willbewhatiwill]

Fox hunting is not necessarily an upper-class sport as there are working class people enjoying riding horses when fox hunting with dogs. In any case does it matter whether rich people or poor people enjoy a particular sport or recreation?

It is accepted in our collective consciousness that culling bacteria, viruses, rats, cockroaches, mosquitoes are acceptable; so is farming livestock for food or utilising animals for work. Sometimes it may be necessary to cull pests (like foxes, rats, grey squirrels, badgers, pigeons, etc) to prevent disease or to sustain food chains that are beneficial to humans. Whales are sometimes called 'cockroaches of the sea' as each whale eats tons of plankton every day. In the past, whales were culled for their oil & meat. Culling pests can be regarded as equivalent to using animals for food, work, vivisection for the development of new drugs, etc.

Hunting is a form of sport - equivalent to fishing, shooting ducks/partridges/pigeons. Fox hunting is an industry also employs people to look after the hunting dogs, horses & land in the countryside where the hunt occurs.

For those who say killing animals for fun, not out of necessity should not be allowed, eating meat from farm animals can sometimes be for fun too. Animals bred for specially for the sole purpose of experimentation, food or work are often kept in less cruel conditions than if those animals were living wild, fending a living for themselves. Animals living wild usually suffer death by disease, hunger, predation, etc. That’s life. Sometimes human civilisation needs are also urgent.

Specifically bred (or kept alive) animals are kept to achieve specific purposes - like farm animals for food, laboratory animals for vivisection, race horses for racing, partridge & hounds for fox hunting. Hounds are not pets, they are often kept by businesses/clubs that organize the hunting. Hounds are working animals - like race horses & greyhounds, guide dogs, police & military horses, etc.#

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/308553/FOI_Hunting_-_27_March_14_6454_Annex_A_Research.pdf states, “Legislation passed in Scotland in 2002 and England and Wales in 2004 banned the hunting of wild mammals with dogs with specific exemptions that allow red foxes (Vulpes vulpes) to be flushed from areas of terrain (‘coverts’) to be shot as a means of pest control. In England and Wales there is a limit of two dogs whereas in Scotland there is no limit”. The study described in the article found that a pack of hounds is considerably more effective than a pair of hounds used to flush foxes out to be shot.

Yes, conceivably, using packs of hounds (without having to observe the 'two dog' limit) to flush foxes out is more practicable & feasible than the present 'two dog limit regulation, as packs of dogs tend to hunt together.

[jourdain2]

I don't think you're right there, Tilly, sorry. Hunting is classless. I don't hunt myself (and never have). Andy-hughes and I had some discussion on this a while ago and he pointed out that it was not a class thing. From observation of our local hunt, this is true.

[pixie374]

I'm never even sure what "classes" are supposed to mean. It isn't expensive in any case. I misunderstood tilly's first post too xx

[Tilly2]

The part that is untrue is the first part of the introduction to the OP

'The Objective In Fox Hunting Is Not Only To Eradicate Pests (Like Foxes)'

I have obviously not made myself very clear. :-(

[andy-hughes]

No I don't agree.

I think the sport is the point of the exercise, and the utterly unsupportable claim that the reason for hunting is to eradicate a pest is simply an attempt by people to justify their bloodlust.

Fox hunting is no more efficient at eradicating foxes as a vermin than spraying flies with spray eradicates flies - I would always have more respect for the hunting fraternity of they had the courage of their convictions, and dropped the notions that we don't understand 'country ways'.

I understand perfectly the pleasure in chasing a fox on horseback with dogs for an afternoon with the minimal chance of catching and killing it - I don't need to be a 'country person' to grasp the concept.

If people wish to enjoy their afternoons being barbaric savages, then that's their choice, but don't insult my intelligence by trying to dress up such behaviour as providing a service to farmers, which is arrant nonsense.

[nailit]

237,
The farm I worked on WAS acres wide. Apart from the free range chickens (which HAD the electric fence around the field) it also farmed beef cattle, pigs and sheep (which DIDNT have an electric fence around them) There was no noticible loss of stock. The chickens had the fence because they were an easy prey to the fox.
And whatever fox hunters are dressed in, the fact remains that they are doing it for sport, not out of any altruistic concern for farm animals.

[Baldric]

Could have a bit of a wait there Andy, OPer is Suspended.

[pixie374]

They used to bring foxes over here from Cornwall and Devon and release them before a hunt- or breed them and they don't catch most of them, so pest control is just not true.

[gness]

Bloodlust is indeed what it is, Andy......

There's no other reason for this sickening activity......x

[Old_Geezer]

It's only objective is to thrill those humans who enjoy inflicting damage and death on other species. It is an unworthy pastime; an embarrassment to the human race.

[237SJ]

Nailit - it's the lambs that foxes go for. Not fully grown livestock. And fowl of course.

[nailit]

Andy,
Once again I begrudenly admit that you've put it more succinctly than myself. Nice to know that we agree on some things :-)

[nailit]

//Nailit - it's the lambs that foxes go for. Not fully grown livestock. And fowl of cour//

237, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not meaning to be rude or anything BUT, Ive lived on a farm, worked on a farm and I know how farms work. There are always going to be problems with foxes but no where near the propaganda put out by pro hunters. And has been pointed out, foxes are often bred or imported (strange way to control a pest) for a hunt.
Fox hunting is a barbaric sport. Nothing more.

[237SJ]

Nailit - my family have farmed for since the 1600s in the same Devon village (livestock and a few crops but mainly sheep and Rubys) so I do know a little bit about farming. Foxes do need to be kept in check but don't get me wrong - I don't agree with hunting and never have. The hunt never went over our land.

[nailit]

You make an interesting point there 237, about hunts going over farm land. Ive heard accounts of hunts going over land and livestock getting trampled and killed by the horses and hounds. So much for protecting the livestock! I can honestly say that the farm where I lived and worked never really had a problem with foxes and never had hunts going over the land either.

[237SJ]

Hunts can't go over the land without the landowner's permission. I vaguely recall that Paul McCartney bought some land on Exmoor purely to prevent the hunt going over it.

[237SJ]

Livestock would never get trampled by the hounds and horses. Would you want to be riding a horse that is heading towards a flock of sheep at a rate of knots? I know I wouldn't (and the sheep would scarper anyway)

[nailit]

//Livestock would never get trampled by the hounds and horses//
Not even chickens or lambs? Ive heard several cases of this happening 237.
As regards the permission thing, I don't know. It was over 30 yrs ago when I was a teenager but might explain the lack of hunts at the time.

[237SJ]

No, not chickens or lambs.

[237SJ]

I do remember my friend's mum forgetting to lock her ducks in the shed one night and a fox bit the head off every one of them. I also remember seeing a fox chewing the legs off a lamb as it was being born. They can be vicious things. Having said that, I have seen a fox run into a meadow full of rabbits and it only grabbed one of them to take back to it's den. Unfortunately, foxes and humans conflict and that will always happen when animals are farmed outdoors. I would rather that than factory farming though

[nailit]

Theyre certainly capable of riding over a human so a chicken or two (or a lamb) wouldn't be a problem for these nutters