Knife-Crimes & Police Numbers

[Khandro]

I hold no brief for Theresa May, but is she right in her assertion that there is no direct correlation between knife crimes and police numbers?

"Despite the spate of knife murders in recent days, May took time out on a visit to Salisbury yesterday to rigidly stick to her line that numbers of cops and crime were not linked. “There is no direct correlation between certain crimes and police numbers,” she said. Even the usually sure-footed Home Office minister Victoria Atkins claimed last November that police numbers were unrelated to crime. “In the late 2000s there was a similar spike in violence and there were many, many more police officers on the streets in that day and age,” she said then."

Huffpost

[Ken4155]

So it's just coincidence? Theresa May must believe that automatic doors opening as she approaches is also just a coincidence. The upsurge in violent crime may not entirely be due to reduced police numbers but it stands to reason that there is a correlation.

[Peter Pedant]

agree Theresa May - this is Criminology 101 just after prisons dont work and capital punishment doesnt work .....

hey something you havent heard
q. why was theresa may allowed to go to Hurghada for a jolly and we arent (did allowed to go there) ?
a. because they thought she wouldnt come back! ter-daah

now to return to the well trodden paths of police numbers and crime - I mean retrocop how many men did you arrest for knife crime in your long and illustrious career ( and did peace n harmony reign thereafter?

[Peter Pedant]

// So it's just coincidence?//
in the earlier 2000s knife crime fell along with police numbers
and yes people said this was coincidence

and yes if knife crime falls when police numbers go down and then goes up when police numbers fall

most people conclude that there is no connection

[spathiphyllum]

This is coming from the leader of the government who has cut police numbers by 20,000 and slashed youth services, also scrapped the EMA and imposed austerity which removed any opportunity or hope for young people.

And she says there aint a correlation?

[EDDIE51]

The problem with 'Knife crime' is that the large majority of it is committed by 'People of Colour' but we are forbidden from pointing that out! Carrying a Knife is seen as a 'Badge of Honour' ! amoung them.

[spathiphyllum]

urm pretty sure we've no clue who carries knfifes only stats we can look at is where they've been used.

[dannyk13]

I would like an explanation of how increasing police numbers will prevent knife crime? It won't.

[spathiphyllum]

I can explain how a decrease of police numbers means less plod on the streets and i can also try to explain to you how that means there is more chance for crimes to be committed because people are ware of the over stretched services, if you want?

[dannyk13]

I have experience of flooding an area to prevent certain crimes happening.It does not work.

[EDDIE51]

Spath . Yes and that will show that 'where they have been used' are areas where the largest % of the population is of ' Afro Caribbeen' extraction!

[spathiphyllum]

Danny no one said increasing police numbers would help the issue they're saying reduced police numbers have made the issue worse, or not helped the issue. That' is not saying then increasing police will fix the issue.

IMO it's all down to parenting.

[Peter Pedant]

yeah but no but
the police fed have to say that dont they?
they arent paid to say - well actually we agree that police on the street have no effect on crime ...

//In 'Knife crime' is that the large part is committed by 'People of Colour' but we are forbidden from pointing that out!//

no it has been pointed out ( many times ) even by the parents - see Nafsar Afshal - my nephew is brown and no one is interested in his death

the vast majority of victims are afro caribbean

oh and shock horror more men are stabbed outside London ( pop 55m) than in London ( 5m) - my immediate thought was - - and these people rule over us .....

[Peter Pedant]

// I have experience of flooding an area to prevent certain crimes happening.It does not work.//

we were drenched with police after the arena bombing
and alot of the proletariat wondered - do they think we are THAT stupid?
( we knew the bomber had been blown to smithereens and gone straight to heaven)

[Ken4155]

If there were more plods on the streets with powers of random stop and search, AND tougher sentences from the courts, i would guess that fewer would carry knives. Those that do so could then be considered to be 'going equipped' as it were.

[Old_Geezer]

It's likely to be a factor because the presence of authority is a deterrent. It's unlikely to be the only factor.

[jim360]

It's pretty obvious why Theresa May is saying this: because to admit otherwise would be to concede that her tenure as Home Sec., and the Tory Government as a whole, was an abject failure and (indirectly) responsible for these deaths.

It's hard to prove a correlation, but common sense should suggest that a reduction in police numbers means that there are fewer resources available both to investigate and prosecute crimes that have been committed and to prevent such crimes in the first place.

[retrocop]

// I have experience of flooding an area to prevent certain crimes happening.It does not work.//

I don't know where Yorkshire police were going wrong but in the Met we had the SPG in our day. A mobile and highly motivated snatch squad. If there were a excess spate of Burglary,mugging car theft on the Super's patch he would request the SPG unit on to the Division.
Stop and Search was robusly used and the crime clear up rate was phenomonol.They used Sec 66 Met Police Act for Stop and Search. That was taken off the statute to appease those who were mostly arrested by it's use. The SPG were victims of their own success and were also disbanded. Another appeasement and a green light for street crime in general.
In answer to your question PP. During my short career as a Beat officer I reckon about 7 for knife possession and four for firearms offences. One offender was an Israeli gentleman who was deported after being dealt with at Marylebone Court by the Stipendary Magistrate Mr Phipps. That would be rare in these days.

[spathiphyllum]

So retro one way to tackle knife crime in the UK could be a specific allocated unit doing patrols? They'd be visually seen by public they could even focus their time on specific areas and it would be good if they had full rights to stop and search in the sole hunt for weapons, anyone who refuses can go in the paddy

[Khandro]

It would obviously work if, taking it to absurdity, to put a couple of cops on every street.
Generally speaking I think (for once) she is right. It is also nothing to do with race either. The problem is being looked at from top-down instead of bottom-up.
Thomas Sowell (whom God preserve) has pointed out that among the Black communities of what we call the Windrush Generation and those in the US bible belt, where youngsters had and have more of regular 2 parent families, statistics prove that the crime rate is no worse than in the general population.

These young black youths come almost invariably from single parent (mother) backgrounds. Filling the streets with policemen will not alter that fact.

[retrocop]

Why do we read too regularly in the media that Police Forces no longer attend burglaries, caution shoplifters,ignore Criminal Damage if the value is lower than whatever low figure they choose to set, take no responsibility for security of vehicles stolen or used in crime when found abandoned. Fail to report Damage Only accidents. The list goes on.They have to rely on ineffective PCSOs and Speed cameras. The police cannot cope with the crime war and that started when Teresa May was H.O. secretary. She was the first Home Secretary, that I am aware of, who was loudly booed at a Police Federation conference. Mostly a poor Home Secretary is met with stony silence at the conference. She came back smugly stating that she had put the police back in their place and would stand no nonsence or demands from them. Well that little plan has seriously gone ting tong. The lady is not for telling the truth. :-(