Question Re Care Homes

[tiggerblue10]

There has been so much backlash towards the government about care homes and moving elderly patients back into them to make room for thousands of Covid patients. Also that they did not do enough testing before returning patients back into homes.

Where were these elderly patients supposed to go if the hospitals had to be freed up? If they were to have stayed put, what implications would this have had on hospitals that had to take in huge numbers of patients for ventilation etc? They were overrun as it was at the time of the peak.

I've seen a screen shot of a document issued to Care Homes (in early March I think) that gave guidelines on infection control. Around 85% of care home are privately managed - surely they must take responsibility for the management of safe-guarding of their staff and residents.

Sorry if this has been brought up before and answered.

[rockyracoon]

My mum knows a chap that moved his dad into a care home so that he knew he would be looked after during the pandemic.

[Bobbisox1]

What’s more baffling is that everyone seems to point the finger at the government for the lack of PPE in the care homes, let’s not forget most Care Homes are privately owned by very rich people who employ staff on a minimum wage .

[albaqwerty]

I'm convinced the private care homes do just enough to maintain their licence.
I wish there was a law which said that visits by the appropriate authority were always unannounced - that would keep them on their toes.

The one on the Isle of Skye, which is now subject to legal matters, has real nursing staff - presumably taken away from the NHS running it. Whether in conjunction with existing care home staff or instead of, I have no idea.

[Prudie]

I heard a statistic on the news yesterday that surprised me re care homes - 2/3rds of UK care care homes have had no positive cases at all.

[ladybirder]

Wonder how many of those are in England Prudie.

[tiggerblue10]

Matt Hancock said that 64% of all care homes were Covid free.

[queen 1954]

My 90 year old mums in a council run nursing home.They didn't close the home for visitors until march 23rd despite Boris saying they were locked down earlier.the home was virus free for the first 4 weeks then 2 carers tested positive and now it has spread to 4 residents one being my mum.Thankfully she has recovered but it just goes to show its not always people that have been sent there from hospitals that are spreading it.I personally know one of the carers affected and she got on my bus on day 6 of her self isolation!!!

[woofgang]

very difficult. As I have said on here before, and Dr Jenny has hinted, many many (most) residents in care homes have got dementia to some degree as well as other co-morbidities. The really seriously extreme shielding that it would have taken to lower the death rate would have been distressing in the extreme for many of the residents. I remember if no one else does, the outcry from relatives when visits were banned. Additionally, again as I have said before, the more heroic treatments would be innappropriate for these folk, very hard to implement without serious sedation and unlikely to work....essentially as I have said before, they would go into HDU or ITU, with the best will in the world be terrified and tortured by the treatment and then die anyway. I am not for one second saying that those deaths are not a loss or that its ok because they would have died anyway or that those people are worth less....but I have seen the carnage that norovirus or flu...even a bad cold virus....can wreak on a care home and I am genuinely genuinely not sure how avoidable those deaths were.

[woofgang]

thanks Tiggs, i was looking for that statistic and couldn't find it

[albaqwerty]

https://www.oscar-research.co.uk/datasheets/carehomes

there's a regional breakdown of number of carehomes further down the page, across the UK.

[jno]

I assume the main thing about care homes is that their guests are all going to be much more vulnerable than the population at large, whether because they're older or sicker or both. So if a virus does get in, it's like to cause more fatalities than anywhere else.

I don't know how far more efforts could have been made to stop the virus from getting into them in the first place. 64% of homes free of it means more than a third do have it, which seems a lot to me.

[woofgang]

Jno, I would be very interested to unpick what was different about the affected care homes...ventilation, location, visiting policies, number of residents and diagnoses, cleaning routines....loads of stuff

[jno]

good points all, woofgang. Maybe someone will look into it some day, maybe.

[THECORBYLOON]

Without knowing how many residents are in that 64% of care homes, it doesn't tell us how many folk are in homes where the virus is or has, been present.

[ladybirder]

queen // I personally know one of the carers affected and she got on my bus on day 6 of her self isolation!!! \\
FGS unbelievable! What is the matter with some people.

[woofgang]

the other thing it might be intersting to know is how many carehomes get a noro epidemic in a normal winter.

[tiggerblue10]

Of course Woof, nobody in their right mind would wish that upon any human being. But yes, flu and other viruses spread like wildfire in such settings which is why they must all have infection control.

Would the Gov. get blamed for private hospital outbreaks as well?

[queen 1954]

Ladybirder i know it's unbelievable,she said oh well i only had it mildly,well my mum weighs 6 stone and has dementia and that carer works on mums wing so i was mortified.they thought mum had a chest infection so were treating her for that but she ended up on morphine injections.God only knows how she got through it.

[Apc2604]

I must admit that my first reaction to lack of PPE in private carehomes was that it should be be supplied by the owners and not the state.

[woofgang]

alba part of my job used to be to see people in all kinds of care homes (community Rehab team) I used to see lovely ones and less lovely ones, wonderful staff and do enough to get by staff. All homes that are registered for nursing care MUST have at least one qualified nurse on duty at all times....yes I think that CQC visits should be unannounced.