Communism

[Khandro]

History lessons, what little seems to be taught in schools today, when dealing with the 20th century make certain that children are well versed in Nazism (which they should be) but deals very little with Communism if at all. Stalin & Mao seem to be off the agenda. In this excellent interview with J Bartholomew the subject is discussed and begins with him buying a tank!

Should all young people flirting with Marxist/Communist ideas, & everyone else, for that matter watch this? ;

[sevenOP]

naomi: " Since that means there is no room for aspiration, ambition,"

is that an attempt at defining what "Communism/Marxism" means to you ?

naomi: "Have you ever witnessed, first-hand, communism in action..."

As it has *never* been tried anywhere - at any time - on this planet, the answer must be 'No'.

[naomi24]

SevenOP, so let me get this right. You're talking about something that doesn't exist and has never existed? A idealistic notion that exists only in your own head. Why?

[ToraToraTora]

sevenOP: "naomi: "Have you ever witnessed, first-hand, communism in action..." - we all have, remember the Soviet Union? such a wonderful system, they were skint and starving by 1990, the whole sorry edifice collapsed in on itself. No one created any sort of wealth for the nation. If queueing up is your idea of a successful society they you're welcome me old china.

[ToraToraTora]

sevenOP: "As it has *never* been tried anywhere - at any time - on this planet, the answer must be 'No'. " - so what was the USSR? China et al?

[naomi24]

TTT, I don't think he's talking about politics in the real world. Just some imaginary ideology.

[ToraToraTora]

SevenOP: so you are talking about some sort of ideological utopia, where each according to his needs etc is implemented perfectly and everyone is happy with their lot. Money is not needed because everyone does their bit and gets the same standard of living right? It has been imagined in Science fiction and yes it does appear wonderful and if you could remove the part of human nature that wants what it can get for as little effort as possible then it might even work. BUT, you have to get from here to there....how? ...and how do you get people to do the really tough jobs when there is no difference in the standard of living? Why would I bother getting educated? For the good of the whole you say, and yes some might even be that way inclined but most will just slob around and let others do the work or, in reality, society will collapse because very few are contributing....and that me old china is why it can never work.

[sevenOP]

"SevenOP, so let me get this right. You're talking about something that doesn't exist and has never existed? A idealistic notion that exists only in your own head. Why?"

You first brought brought it up naomi, @ 10:18 Tue 14th Jun 2022 in the very first reply in this thread.
Communism is a political theory that has never been put into practice anywhere, at any time

[ToraToraTora]

ok we've explained why it can't work, your turn sevenOP, tell us why it can......over to you.

[naomi24]

SevenOP, perhaps you should ask your questions elsewhere, making it clear you're talking about an idealistic philosophy that has never been tried. Otherwise I think you'll have everyone scratching their heads, as I am, wondering what on earth you're talking about and why you've chosen to contribute to a thread involving historical politics at all.

[sevenOP]

You first brought brought it up naomi, @ 10:18 Tue 14th Jun 2022 in the very first reply in this thread.

We have been round this circle of evasion from you before naomi on your inability to explain the very words that you yourself use... now you are trying some form of inversion. ( must add this new tactic to the avoid/deflect/distract/digress/evasion you normally resort to)

Posters like you and Khandro, and many others, happily bandy about words that they cannot even define in their own words.

[naomi24]

SevenOP. And you've said what precisely? Nothing.

[sevenOP]

//Posters like you [naomi] and Khandro, and many others, happily bandy about words that they cannot even define in their own words.//

the above @ 13:00 Tue 21st Jun 2022 said by me is 'something' , not "nothing".
Evade away.

[naomi24]

SevenOP, I don’t know what you think you’re reading, but although I did omit the Communist demand for State ownership of property and the ban on private enterprise, I've given a pretty accurate example of the nonsensical and infinitely unworkable Marxist mantra.

Now rather than continue to avoid/deflect/distract/digress/evade, how about giving us YOUR definition of Communism, something that, as yet, you have neglected to provide? I see you've carried your lemons over to another thread where, because of it, confusion reigns yet again - so that would not only assist your readers greatly - it would actually be a welcome courtesy.

PS. ^Those are all my own words.

[Khandro]

Don't you just love these people who languish in the comfortable freedom of democracy espousing Communism?

seven op; go on; tell us why you yearn to live under a totalitarian regime.

P.S. I've been quiet for 2 days because my computer is with the technicians & I'm tuning in from Mrs. K's laptop, which I hate.

[sevenOP]

naomi, this 'definition of Communism' hamster wheel was been gone into great detail on a thread you started a while ago on your bête noire, which you call the Marxist mantra...
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Culture/Question1701636.html

Marx stipulated a very exact set of circumstances to be achieved before those words could apply -"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"- ( they were the end not the *means* )
Marx gives the circumstances that would enable 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' to work in his Critique Of The Gotha Program
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/you-might-be-a-marxist-if-you-believe-in-from-each-according-to-their-abilities-to-each-according-to-their-needs/

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" was a statement Marx said that could possibly be finally made, *post* socialism, when communism was reached, then fully developed, and only then "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", might become a possibility.
It was not a "general rule" and is not inherent in 'socialism' but an idea possibly achievable after fully developed and functioning communism has been reached.

That is my understanding of Communism, a term that I never invented, but only try to understand what it means.

Khandro: "Don't you just love these people who languish in the comfortable freedom of democracy espousing Communism? "

Who are you claiming is "espousing" Communism Khandro ?

I do not "yearn to live under a totalitarian regime" , but , unlike you, I can give some insight into what "Communism" might mean.

[bobbinwales]

All that writing and you've said nothing 7 op.

[bobbinwales]

Anyway the communism khandro name ttt has described as never worked.the communism your idealising about as never been tried...we have to wonder why

[ToraToraTora]

so how do we start on this road sevenOP?

[sevenOP]

naomi :"SevenOP. And you've said what precisely? Nothing." @ 13:04 Tue 21st Jun 2022

bobbinwales : "All that writing and you've said nothing 7 op." @ 19:59 Tue 21st Jun 2022

Taking up the "Mantra" bobbinwales ?

Perhaps if you both checked the meaning of "nothing" it might surprise you .

I am not "idealising" anything bobbinwales, nor advocating "Communism", but am trying to get an understanding of this 'bandied about' term - as it suits those practitioners who cannot explain what they mean when they use it and enlightens no-one.
(explanations which that can aid people who "wonder")

[naomi24]

SevenOP, well. at least you got that off your chest - even if it is just an impossibly idealistic 'something' that has never happened and is never likely to. It's almost 'religious' in its nature. Practically the whole world employs the term 'Communist' to describe the despicable philosophies of people and regimes bent on pursuing destructive practices designed to constrain and, moreover, to control, so you may rest assured that although your comprehension is limited - and purposefully so in my opinion - the majority of the posters here know exactly what the OP is talking about.

//Perhaps if you both checked the meaning of "nothing" it might surprise you .//

No surprises for me. I've read the book too. Without checking my shelves, from New Scientist I believe.