Rod Liddle In Sun This Morning Talking Sense As Usual.

[dave50]

LABOUR wants constitutional reform. Good idea.

But abolishing the House of Lords isn’t enough. How about the following?

Raise the voting age to 25.
No representation without taxation – you don’t get to vote unless you pay tax.
Proportional representation.
Nobody allowed to stand as an MP unless they’ve done a proper job.
Just for starters.

[bobbinwales]

No chance.... of any of them especially the age taxpayer one.

[THECORBYLOON]

"No representation without taxation – you don’t get to vote unless you pay tax."

Under his proposals, folk could pay tax yet not vote because of their age, is that reasonable?

Would there be a date on which someone had to have taxable income in order to have a vote?

If yes, how would that be proven?

"Nobody allowed to stand as an MP unless they’ve done a proper job."

Who would determine what is a, "proper job"?

Would there need to be a minimum period of employment in such jobs and would that period vary according to each "proper job"?

Would folk need to prove they were capable of doing that job to an acceptable level as opposed to just being employed or self-employed for that period?

Would disciplinary action in a, "proper job" be taken into account when considering eligibility?

Just for starters...

[youngmafbog]

Sounds good to me.

Need to build up a level of tax years (easy to do with NI stamps) so that covers the young and anyone arriving.

Whats a 'proper job' - well anything outside of Government central or local. It's simply to show you understand the majority of people and how business works.

Plenty of ways of working it if you put your mind to it but those are details, this is a high level idea.

I'm guessing you work in the civil service if you dont get that.

[THECORBYLOON]

"It's simply to show you understand the majority of people and how business works."

How would that be demonstrated?

I noticed there is no proposed change to the minimum age to be an MP which is currently age eighteen.

That means someone not entitled to vote for an MP could be elected as one.

[Ken4155]

If you can die for your country at 18, then you should have a say in who runs your country at 18. IMHO, of course.

[Gromit]

Thankfully no link.
Most of that is stupid.

How about the following:
- Lower voting to working age. Those who stop working lose their vote.
- Nobody allowed to write columns for The Sun unless they have done a proper job.

Anyone can write the drivel Liddle churns out.

[ToraToraTora]

Abolish HOL and replace with an elected chamber? yes agree.

Interesting on the voting though I'd implement slightly differently. Leave the voting age as it is but make it only those that have made a net contribution to society that can vote. We all have an NI number it would be a simple matter to add up how much we've paid in direct tax NI etc and subtract any means tested benefits. If that number is greater than zero the person gets a vote.

PR is a disaster has never worked anywhere. For all it's flaws we already have the best system.

MPs proper jobs? Ok not against that though we'd need to define what constitutes a "proper job".

[Gromit]

There are millions who work but are under the paying tax threshold.
Have children, you lose your vote.
Get ill, lose your vote.
Have an accident lose your vote.
Win the Eurolottery, lose your vote.

It is a daft plan.

[Gromit]

FPTP is a terrible system as far as fair representation goes, but PR and AV aren’t much of a solution.
In 2019 it resulted in possibly the worst Government in living memory, getting a 80 seat majority.

CPG Gray on the 2015 UK election

[ToraToraTora]

gromit; "Have children, you lose your vote.
Get ill, lose your vote.
Have an accident lose your vote.
Win the Eurolottery, lose your vote. " - if prior to all of those you are > 0 in contributions that will not change, so you'll keep the vote until you've scrounged enough to take your total below zero.

[perseverer]

Rod Liddle + The Sun and Talking Sense all in the one phrase. Who would doubt it? Perhaps he has been out in the sun too long.

[youngmafbog]

Oh how the mighty self righteous like to belittle anyone with an idea that conflicts with their ideology.

He's only putting it out there to get a reaction dont you see that?. It wont happen.

[Untitled]

only thing i agree with is PR…

i think it is more reasonable to introduce the point about “proper jobs” (poor wording) regarding actual cabinet ministers or perhaps top-level civil servants… i.e. if you’re in charge of the ministry of transport/science/defence then you should probably be something other than a politico who’s just going to be there for 18 months and then burger off and preferably have actually worked in the relevant sector…

under PR mps don’t really represent local constituencies anyway they are there to represent ideas/parties… within reason i think placing limits on who can be a representative is inimical to the purpose of PR

[Ellipsis]

Populate the Commons via FPTP and the Lords via PR, and then give the now-democratic Lords more power to regulate the work done by the Commons (reform the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949) ...

[Untitled]

select the lords by lottery of the adult population and have that chamber select the monarch from among themselves!

[perseverer]

(I can hear the "we left Europe because we know better type response" already.)

Approx 40 of 43 countries in Europe use some form of PR. Italy gets quoted as a country where PR causes constant problems but does anyone actually know if it works relatively well and more fairly in other countries?