Ever Heard Of Gender Affirming Care?

[ToraToraTora]

[wolf63]

You are becoming obsessed with this subject.

[ToraToraTora]

This is the way on AB isn't it?

[Zacs-Master]

You don't have to follow.

[ToraToraTora]

This is a valid example case though, kids are getting pushed down this route for things that are just normal growing up issues. We even have a name for it now. The world loves a name for things doesn't it?

[Zacs-Master]

Yes, we like to put people into boxes. We undertake to do that on a daily basis but will it be the death of society as we know it, or will it cremate a whole new one?

[Zacs-Master]

Sorry, create (wink emoji)

[ToraToraTora]

ZM: ".... or will it cremate a whole new one? " - I think that is what we call a Freudian Slip!

[ClareTG0ld]

Detransitioners like this woman do exist, and their cases are clearly sad. Clearly it's another example where mental healthcare is underfunded with sad consequences.

Where I disagree with her is with her proposal of banning trans care altogether (or, at least, for young people). Firstly, this is a clear State overreach into what ought to be a private medical matter between patient, family, and doctor (it's the same faulty logic that allows for abortion bans, another overreach with horrible consequences). Secondly, since what was lacking was proper mental care, both before and during any medical treatment, that's what needs fixing first. Having the freedom to explore the question allows people to arrive at their own answer.

[ClareTG0ld]

15.50, that really is the burning issue of the day :P

[Zacs-Master]

Indeed Clare.
Tora, have a read of the whole of my post again. Another wink emoji.

[New Judge]

//Secondly, since what was lacking was proper mental care,...//

She didn't need mental care. What she needed was parental protection and guidance. Most of all she needed to be told by her parents (and reinforced by her doctor if necessary) to wait until she was a little older to see if she still felt the same way. Instead, the very people she turned to for help immediately set her on the path to a course of life-changing drugs and surgical mutilation from which she is unlikely ever to recover.

She described it as a scandal. That is incorrect. It’s far worse than that – what happened to her was criminal. No child of 12 should have been sent down the path which blocked her puberty, then a course of testosterone which made her develop male characteristics and finally surgical removal of her breasts at 15 – FIFTEEN!

//Having the freedom to explore the question allows people to arrive at their own answer.//

Indeed it does. But the answer they give at age 12 is very often unlikely to be the same as it would be at sixteen or seventeen. This woman has suffered irreversible and life-changing consequences at the hands of doctors who took a decision for her which she was not mature enough to properly take for herself. Whoever they were, they should never be allowed to practice their dark arts anywhere near young, immature children.

[naomi24]

I despair, I really do. This makes me cry.

[Zacs-Master]

Well said, NJ.

[naomi24]

^indeed. Well said NJ.

[wolf63]

I watched a YT video where this girl spoke to psychologist Jordan Peterson.

Both agreed that teenagers should not be given transition treatment.

This is the entire conversation, I watched a clip that was about 20 minutes long.

[ClareTG0ld]

I can see that risk, if other people are taking the decisions for you then it's wrong. But this plays both ways. Making transgender children wait, in effect indefinitely, is also wrong for more or less the same reason.

Also, there's a lot of moving of the bar here. A letter that no doubt represents an opinion shared by many is that even 18 isn't young enough to make the decision to undergo medical treatment for transgender care, and instead suggested that 25 should be the cutoff, in order to give the brain further time to develop. But why stop even there? Why not 30?

The basic flaw behind a lot of this reasoning is that people see being transgender in the first place as a mistake, a problem, a lie, whatever, and are evidently determined to stop people from making this "mistake" if at all possible. I certainly agree that if, on a Tuesday, a young child questions their gender identity, then rushing them onto hormone treatment on Wednesday and surgery on Thursday is wrong. But the converse approach, of trying any and all excuses to kick the can down the road, is equally flawed.

I'm sorry for what happened to this child. But the answer isn't to ban gender-affirming care, for teenagers or anybody else.

[naomi24]

// Making transgender children wait, in effect indefinitely, is also wrong for more or less the same reason. //

You're talking about children. What would you suggest?

[ClareTG0ld]

// You're talking about children. What would you suggest? //

Put simply, increased support for mental healthcare, as I've said a few times. This would allow people -- children and adult alike -- to have the freedom to explore their thoughts and identity, in order to ensure that any decisions they take about irreversible procedures are fully informed, and the right decisions for them personally.

Also, even if you felt it important to ban or at least heavily restrict access to surgical care for transgender children, then you'd still need to ensure they have access to such support in the meantime.

[naomi24]

ClareTG0ld. You've moved the goalposts again. You said making transgender children wait is wrong. Is it or isn't it?

[ClareTG0ld]

I said that making them wait indefinitely is wrong. There's a critical difference.