Ben Habib – Reform Uk Party

[Hymie]

He was on some TV programme this morning, banging on about immigration, that there are too many immigrants in this country (and the need to better control immigration).

 

In reality of course we need more immigrants (not less) to make this country more successful – but that isn’t Habib’s view.

 

Anyway, whenever Habib is appearing on TV this is his mantra re immigration; but no presenter has asked him (as an immigrant from Pakistan) when is he leaving?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Habib

[Old_Geezer]

Of course we don't need more. In fact every new citizen makes us more crowded, and it's more difficult to provide resources. Standard of living falls. We already are too crowded as a nation, and for a world of this size it already has too many humans needing resources and a system to cope with tolerable levels of waste.

 

What we need is a mass emigration and to properly manage the remaining workforce. Importing labour to bypass yhe nation's market, is making the situation worse. It should be banned unless it can be shown that for a certain circumstance there is no chance of employing UK citizens. And even then it needs to be shown that the tasks are actually needed.

[hops]

well said old geezer

[newmodarmy]

Hymie- simply because there is no reason to ask him when is he leaving. He's not proposing to force immigrants to leave- he just wants fewer to come in. I don't agree with his strong views but he has the right to express the view. He came here as a schoolboy and his Mum was from England, so he didn't make a conscious decision to come here.

[Hymie]

If I was against people called Hymie coming to the UK, and I had come to the UK (regardless that when I came to the UK I did not hold that view), surely I should now leave?

[Old_Geezer]

Just apply to change your name.

 

I think there's a difference between not wanting any more, and removing what you have. Consider the analogy of being at the meal table. After dining, is refusing any more, thank you, the same as returning what you ate all over the table, and/or fellow diners ?

[Alan365]

We need more immigrants? Are you off your head?

[Hymie]

The rightwing media have brainwashed the public to demonise immigrants, whereas in general they pay more in taxes than the indigenous population (contributing more to the economy) – and many come with the added advantage that they have qualifications, the schooling for which was paid for by their home country.  Even those over 18 come without the cost of being schooled for 13 years, ready to start earning (and paying tax).

 

Immigrants are a win, win for the UK.

[naomi24]

Hymie, you don't half talk some tripe.

[royfromaus]

OMG

what utter drivel.

I hope you are pleased with yourself, Hymie...you have drove me to the pub.

[Old_Geezer]

On the contrary. Even if, for the sake of argument, we took your word for how industrious and tax paying every immigrant was (Ha !) then every job they do means a native is prevented from doing it, and the native then becomes a net taker from the Welfare State that our tax is collected for (among other things). Consequently immigrants net contribution when this is taken into account is very little; and instead are the cause of overcrowding, lower pay, and insufficient job opportunities. Such resource can be useful when there is national need to cover a short term hump in employee availability but otherwise we don't need net immigration. Even net zero won't solve the issue.

[JACKSON-REACHER]

Illegal immigration is annoying. But in terms of numbers, the majority of immigrants are legally here (745,000) far outnumbering the boat people (30,000).

[Alan365]

More than 30,000 came over on boats just last year. Where on earth are you getting your numbers from?  The alkali attacker came over in the back of a lorry and he was by no means alone in that mode of entry to this country. Get real will you. 

[New Judge]

“The rightwing media have brainwashed the public to demonise immigrants,…”

Why is it that whenever somebody voices a different opinion to yours, they are accused of either being “idiots”, having been “brainwashed” or (a favourite of one of our other contributors)  of having been “radicalised”?

“Immigrants are a win, win for the UK.”

Let’s have a little look at that, hopefully without any insults.

Any immigrants who work here will undoubtedly add to the nation’s GDP (unless they are earning no money at all). Whether they add to the nation’s GDP per capita is debateable. They would have to add more than the current average. Some might do, others most certainly would not. So whether the per capita GDP increases overall is by no means so clear cut as you would have us believe.  

Last year, 1.2 million people arrived to settle here and net migration was 672,000. This country has severe problems with three main areas of public services (and less severe problems with most of the others, but let’s not dwell). These are housing, healthcare and education.

Housing: The government has a target to ensure that 300,000 homes are built each year. Last year the total built was 212,000, the year before 211,000. Let’s be generous and assume that 3 immigrants share one home (and I am being very generous because many of them are single). That means the entire growth in new homes was insufficient to deal with the numbers migrating to the UK. In all major towns and cities (which are principally the places where immigrants want to settle) there are enormous housing problems. HMOs and “beds in sheds” abound.

Healthcare: The NHS has 7m people waiting for treatment. Again, in large towns and cities, the GP service is virtually non-existent; NHS dentistry is as rare as hens’ teeth (which are about as rare as some patients' teeth due to lack of treatment); some hospitals’ A&E departments resemble war zones. As “young and fit and healthy” as the incomers may be, many of them will need healthcare. So how is an annual influx, greater than population of Manchester or Glasgow, to be treated?

Education: One in five primary schools and one in four secondary schools in England & Wales is at or over capacity. In many towns and cities the number is greater than that and parents of children moving to secondary school rarely get their first choice of school. Yes, there are surplus places in some areas such as Cornwall and North Norfolk. But recent arrivals don’t want to live in Liskeard or Sheringham.

These are serious practical problems which are being exacerbated but huge numbers of new arrivals. They will not be easily overcome and nor will they be financed by those arriving here who are adding to them.

I've not been brainwashed by the media. I've thought this through (a number of times) and it is clear to me that although immigration may sound like a panacea for all the country's ills, it will clearly create far more problems than it ever solves.

Do you seriously think immigration on the scale seen in the past few years is a “win-win” for the UK? If so, how about giving us your views on the problems I have outlined. 

[Hymie]

We have very serious problems in this country with housing, healthcare and education due to 14 years of incompetent Tory rule; no doubt they would like to blame someone else – I know, let’s blame the immigrants.

[david small]

Hymie. How. You. Make. Ignorance. Entertaining.

Your comment takes the biscuit, the tin, and the van they were delivered in.

”Need more immigrants” Hogwash, tripe, and boulderdash.

[Hymie]

On searching google, asking if the UK needs migrants, the first listing reads:-

 

‘The Home Office says Britain needs 150,000 immigrants a year for the next 20 years. The French interior ministry has said that the EU needs 75m immigrants by 2050.’

[New Judge]

"We have very serious problems in this country with housing, healthcare and education due to 14 years of incompetent Tory rule; no doubt they would like to blame someone else – I know, let’s blame the immigrants."

It doesn't matter what caused the problems, they exist. At no point have I attributed them to immigrants, or to anything else. I'm simply being realistic. We have enormous problems providing housing and vital services for those already here (many of whom are immigrants and may be suffering disproportionately to the settled population). Yet your contention that simply adding to those problems by allowing even greater numbers to settle here is a "win win" for the country.

How about discussing it based on what I actually said, instead of closing it down by remarking on something which you wish I'd said?

[New Judge]

"The French interior ministry has said that the EU needs 75m immigrants by 2050.’"

I don't care tuppence what the French interior ministry says nor do I care what the EU needs or doesn't need.

‘The Home Office says Britain needs 150,000 immigrants a year for the next 20 years.

We'll leave aside the fact that almost eight times that number arrived last year.

The question that needs to be asked is why does the Home Office hold that belief? If it's to cope with the "ageing population" then the contention is ludicrous because all that will happen is the 150,000 extra souls will themselves age (as incredible as that may seem). Then what do we do?

But ignoring that basic fact (and the fact that the UK seems perfectly content to denude other countries of their young and educated people), it simply isn't good enough just to say that. That's because the problems I outlined still exist. So some other plan needs to be devised. 

Apart from blaming the Conservatives for the situation the country is in, have you any comments on the points I outlined earlier, or do you still believe immigration is a win-win for this country? If so, how are the problems to be overcome and, bearing in mind they cannot be solved overnight, if at all, (even by a Labour government) what do you suggest is done until they are?