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Good manners - or patronising?
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Ruby's question about a matriarchal society got me thinking about the changes in manners in today's society. It seems that some men feel they can no longer treat women as 'ladies' - offering a seat, or opening doors for them, etc, since women view actions once considered to be good breeding and good manners, as patronising. So men - do you still behave in a gentlemanly way, or have you given up? And women, do you prefer men to treat you as a 'lady', or would you rather be treated as 'one of the boys'?
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I would give up my seat for an elderly person, regardless of their sex.
And are you implying I'm not worth whistling at, Rev?
See, there is the ultimate dichotomy; women don't want to be viewed as sex objects but part of them can't help feeling the slightest bit rejected if no-one wolf whistles at them.......
And are you implying I'm not worth whistling at, Rev?
See, there is the ultimate dichotomy; women don't want to be viewed as sex objects but part of them can't help feeling the slightest bit rejected if no-one wolf whistles at them.......
Manners maketh man in my opinion.
I always open doors for a lady, or anyone else for that matter if I'm the first one there, and I'll offer my seat to a lady or anyone who needs it more than me IE an OAP
Old fashioned? maybe,
patronising? well if the person doesn't want what's offered a polite "no thanks" usually does the trick with no offence on either side taken.
I always open doors for a lady, or anyone else for that matter if I'm the first one there, and I'll offer my seat to a lady or anyone who needs it more than me IE an OAP
Old fashioned? maybe,
patronising? well if the person doesn't want what's offered a polite "no thanks" usually does the trick with no offence on either side taken.
Open a door for a lady aged around 50+ and you'll get a "thank you". Anyone younger nowadays in my experience will just walk through complete with a pram etc and not have the manners to thank you. So yes, I have basically given up with the younger generation. Will you see them on trains and buses giving up their seats for an elderly person? Don't make me laugh!
If I was offered a seat, I'd take it if needed (ie when huge in pregnancy) and politely decline if i didnt need it.
Id always say thank you, thats just the way Ive been brought up.
Id also offer my seat if anyone needed it more than i did.
I dont find it patronising at all. I do get a bit disheartened when people dont say thank you for nice gestures and I would hope that the lack of manners of some people doesnt prevent me from being polite in the future.
Id always say thank you, thats just the way Ive been brought up.
Id also offer my seat if anyone needed it more than i did.
I dont find it patronising at all. I do get a bit disheartened when people dont say thank you for nice gestures and I would hope that the lack of manners of some people doesnt prevent me from being polite in the future.
But 4GS, you're old school and have come from an environment where manners are actively encouraged.
I think the majority of women believe that a man opening a door for them / wolf whistling at them / offering them a seat on the bus etc is nothing more than good old fashioned manners.
Too many women want things all their own way.
Take the Maltesers advert. A woman is bored at work and decides to bare her boobs at a passing man to allieviate the boredom.
Switch the male and the female around and you have a case for sexual harassment.
Why do women do this?? Why is it OK for us to wolf whistle blokes / be depicted as being predatory creatures in such a way but men are not?
I think it makes women look weak if we behave in such a way.
I think the majority of women believe that a man opening a door for them / wolf whistling at them / offering them a seat on the bus etc is nothing more than good old fashioned manners.
Too many women want things all their own way.
Take the Maltesers advert. A woman is bored at work and decides to bare her boobs at a passing man to allieviate the boredom.
Switch the male and the female around and you have a case for sexual harassment.
Why do women do this?? Why is it OK for us to wolf whistle blokes / be depicted as being predatory creatures in such a way but men are not?
I think it makes women look weak if we behave in such a way.
I don't slam doors in people's faces, and will hold them for anyone regardless of gender, but I expect to be thanked for doing so as I would expect to thank someone who did it for me. I find most people do actually thank you. Those who don't may find me reminding them that a 'thank you' is considered polite, depending on how sniffy they've been.
I do not give up my seat to women unless they are pregnant and I would not expect to be offered a seat by someone else. I don't think that women of my generation expect to be offered a seat either. I would offer an elderly person my seat regardless of gender.
In short, I endeavour to be polite all the time, but I certainly wouldn't make a gender disctinction between those to be polite to.
I do not give up my seat to women unless they are pregnant and I would not expect to be offered a seat by someone else. I don't think that women of my generation expect to be offered a seat either. I would offer an elderly person my seat regardless of gender.
In short, I endeavour to be polite all the time, but I certainly wouldn't make a gender disctinction between those to be polite to.
I think that good manners should not be limited to men, I hold the door open for other people whether they are men or women, but nothing hacks me off more than people strolling through and not saying thank you - not wanting to be sexist, but this is usually women.
Good manners cost nothing.
I also noticed when I was heavily pregnant, that when you were waiting to cross a road through a big queue of traffic, women rarely left you a gap, made any allowances, or waived you over, but men usually did - especially van drivers.
i certainly don't feel patronised by others good manners, if they are meant in the best intentions. I did have someone in a call centre continually call me "dear" last night and I just about blew my top at her in the end as it just felt really patronising.
Good manners cost nothing.
I also noticed when I was heavily pregnant, that when you were waiting to cross a road through a big queue of traffic, women rarely left you a gap, made any allowances, or waived you over, but men usually did - especially van drivers.
i certainly don't feel patronised by others good manners, if they are meant in the best intentions. I did have someone in a call centre continually call me "dear" last night and I just about blew my top at her in the end as it just felt really patronising.
I think the very top of this thread was spot on.
One day a lady will want a man to be chivalrous and open doors and give up his seat etc. The very next day she will think he is a freak and a letch who is �after something�. They do want it both ways, but I find more often they don�t mind it when it is a man they find reasonably attractive (like me obviously), but when a gangly, balding middle-aged fat man (like me on a bad hair day) they are repulsed by any generosity since this person is obviously a bedroom surfing pervert.
Round my way women tend to be the most aggressive and un-generous drivers as well. Maybe because I live in a snooty area full of WAG�s and Toffs who think they own the road in their Range Rover HSE Sports. They wouldn�t dream of letting you cross the road without letting them go by so you can admire their wealth and feel belittled. Of course some men are like this too, but it really is predominantly women.
One day a lady will want a man to be chivalrous and open doors and give up his seat etc. The very next day she will think he is a freak and a letch who is �after something�. They do want it both ways, but I find more often they don�t mind it when it is a man they find reasonably attractive (like me obviously), but when a gangly, balding middle-aged fat man (like me on a bad hair day) they are repulsed by any generosity since this person is obviously a bedroom surfing pervert.
Round my way women tend to be the most aggressive and un-generous drivers as well. Maybe because I live in a snooty area full of WAG�s and Toffs who think they own the road in their Range Rover HSE Sports. They wouldn�t dream of letting you cross the road without letting them go by so you can admire their wealth and feel belittled. Of course some men are like this too, but it really is predominantly women.
Are there really still people around who refer to women as "birds"? I thought 1975 had finished some time ago.
I think most women like a man to be a gentleman and only the most hard-nosed uber-feminist will view it as patronising. Most women can tell the difference between polite and patronising, or between chivalry and chauvinism. I shall continue holding doors open for women, letting them walk on the inside of the pavement, and treating them with respect. If a woman should complain about this, I shall politely point out that my actions are out of courtesy, not out of some belief that women are helpless or inferior in any way, nor because I'm after her body. If she still moans, I shall reassure her that the next time I see her, I shall be sure to slam the door in her face or let her risk getting run over, just as she apparently wants.
Most of the time though, I get a thank you (and maybe even a smile!), including from younger women.
I think most women like a man to be a gentleman and only the most hard-nosed uber-feminist will view it as patronising. Most women can tell the difference between polite and patronising, or between chivalry and chauvinism. I shall continue holding doors open for women, letting them walk on the inside of the pavement, and treating them with respect. If a woman should complain about this, I shall politely point out that my actions are out of courtesy, not out of some belief that women are helpless or inferior in any way, nor because I'm after her body. If she still moans, I shall reassure her that the next time I see her, I shall be sure to slam the door in her face or let her risk getting run over, just as she apparently wants.
Most of the time though, I get a thank you (and maybe even a smile!), including from younger women.
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