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Should you be allowed to consume narcotics?
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I don't want to hear no rhetoric. What I'm saying is, should you, as a sane minded person, be allowed to take a mind altering substances for your personal enjoyment? Or not? Please, no mention of addiction or drug crime as in my opinion it is not a true reflection of overall drug use.
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What you mean Lonnie is "Let's completely change the meaning of the original question, so that it suits my answers".
You could just as easily change it to "Should a pilot be allowed to drink a couple of vodkas before his pre-flight check?" Obviously not, but that is not the same question as "Should we be allowed to consume alcohol?"
You could just as easily change it to "Should a pilot be allowed to drink a couple of vodkas before his pre-flight check?" Obviously not, but that is not the same question as "Should we be allowed to consume alcohol?"
rojash,
Thats not what I was saying, but its obvious this thread is dominated by the pro-legalise drugs, so whatever I say will be wrong.
But, I'll try another explanation one more time.
If a Train driver is found to have taken any drugs, no matter how long before, (this would be on a drink and drugs test), he will be sacked, no question, instantly, no appeal), same for a pilot.
Both are allowed to have a moderate drink the evening before,
Perhaps someone on this thread could explain the discrepancy?.
Thats not what I was saying, but its obvious this thread is dominated by the pro-legalise drugs, so whatever I say will be wrong.
But, I'll try another explanation one more time.
If a Train driver is found to have taken any drugs, no matter how long before, (this would be on a drink and drugs test), he will be sacked, no question, instantly, no appeal), same for a pilot.
Both are allowed to have a moderate drink the evening before,
Perhaps someone on this thread could explain the discrepancy?.
"Perhaps someone on this thread could explain the discrepancy?". Assuming that your claim is correct, (and I'm not sure that it is - I've never heard of random drug tests for train drivers), the explanation is simple: recreational drugs are illegal, alcohol is not.
So your reasoning appears to be that drugs should be illegal because they are illegal.
So your reasoning appears to be that drugs should be illegal because they are illegal.
I Drive Trains, for the London Underground, we get random Drink and Druds tests, and what i've said is true,
I would hazard a guess its the same for National Rail.
I managed to find this,
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:jBQOc9a5m nIJ:ww.amicustheunion.org/pdf/AlcoholandDrugsF eb04.pdf+London+Underground+Drink+and+Drugs+po licy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=uk
if you notice, on drink, it says heavy drinking,
But I can tell you, at least for drivers, there's no tolerance on drugs,
Next time any of you travel by train, ask the driver, he/she won't mind.
As stated, my view on recreational drug taking must overlap into professional life, because, unlike drink, drugs stay in the bloodstream for days, sometimes weeks after participating.
I would hazard a guess its the same for National Rail.
I managed to find this,
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:jBQOc9a5m nIJ:ww.amicustheunion.org/pdf/AlcoholandDrugsF eb04.pdf+London+Underground+Drink+and+Drugs+po licy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=uk
if you notice, on drink, it says heavy drinking,
But I can tell you, at least for drivers, there's no tolerance on drugs,
Next time any of you travel by train, ask the driver, he/she won't mind.
As stated, my view on recreational drug taking must overlap into professional life, because, unlike drink, drugs stay in the bloodstream for days, sometimes weeks after participating.
Ice maiden, because they're a good laugh to be honest. I'd not bother much these days, maybe a concert or something. Yes, they do give a bit of confidence but the same is said of the demon drink.
Lonnie, it is up to users to be responsible, not up to others to take away their right to be responsible. And just because its is your system a day or two later it doesn't mean its affecting your decisions or whatever, the affects have worn off.
Lonnie, it is up to users to be responsible, not up to others to take away their right to be responsible. And just because its is your system a day or two later it doesn't mean its affecting your decisions or whatever, the affects have worn off.
Sorry, Lonnie. I wasn't around yesterday to continue this, but in answer to some of your points:
- I don't know if you've ever taken cocaine, but as someone who has, I can tell you that I'd feel more in control of my senses and coordination if I'd taken a line of cocaine than if I'd had say a pint and a half of lager. I would much rather someone pilot my plane after taking coke the night before than a skinful of booze.
- I'm not necessarily in the pro-legalise camp, because - now that the law has already morally erred in banning them - it would present unwelcome repercussions (drug tourism being one). I'm talking about philosophically, logically and morally, I don't think they should be illegal. And they certainly shouldn't be any less legal than alcohol.
- As for the discrepancy, I'll give you a couple of reasons. 1) PR. Because of the ill-informed reactionary (and media-led) views of the public, tolerating drug use is considered A Bad Thing so few large organisations do it. 2) Alcohol is so woven into the fabric of everyday life that it is given preferential treatment - there is no medical evidence to support your view that it would affect the ability to operate machinery any more than booze would. I would suggest its effect is less than that of booze.
- Retaining traces of a drug in the bloodstream isn't a measure of how it affects your behaviour. On a related note, if I knew that my babysitter had taken so much of a drug the previous night that they'd been unable to talk or stand up or apply rational thought properly, I'd be concerned for my child. Thing is, the only drug that I ever see causing that behaviour is alcohol.
I'm not advocating that people take drugs, but I do believe that we should be free to live our lives and harm ourselves however we please unless there's an over-riding danger of harming others.
If that meant that alcohol was made illegal in line with
- I don't know if you've ever taken cocaine, but as someone who has, I can tell you that I'd feel more in control of my senses and coordination if I'd taken a line of cocaine than if I'd had say a pint and a half of lager. I would much rather someone pilot my plane after taking coke the night before than a skinful of booze.
- I'm not necessarily in the pro-legalise camp, because - now that the law has already morally erred in banning them - it would present unwelcome repercussions (drug tourism being one). I'm talking about philosophically, logically and morally, I don't think they should be illegal. And they certainly shouldn't be any less legal than alcohol.
- As for the discrepancy, I'll give you a couple of reasons. 1) PR. Because of the ill-informed reactionary (and media-led) views of the public, tolerating drug use is considered A Bad Thing so few large organisations do it. 2) Alcohol is so woven into the fabric of everyday life that it is given preferential treatment - there is no medical evidence to support your view that it would affect the ability to operate machinery any more than booze would. I would suggest its effect is less than that of booze.
- Retaining traces of a drug in the bloodstream isn't a measure of how it affects your behaviour. On a related note, if I knew that my babysitter had taken so much of a drug the previous night that they'd been unable to talk or stand up or apply rational thought properly, I'd be concerned for my child. Thing is, the only drug that I ever see causing that behaviour is alcohol.
I'm not advocating that people take drugs, but I do believe that we should be free to live our lives and harm ourselves however we please unless there's an over-riding danger of harming others.
If that meant that alcohol was made illegal in line with
Research into the effects of THC (Active ingredient of dope) on driving safety:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/news/driving
http://www.cannabisculture.com/news/driving
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That's a toughie question, styley.
The problem is, there's always a minority who don't know their limit and that could have repercussions. The same, incidentally, applies to people who go out for a few beers on a weekend for "personal enjoyment" and start kicking off etc. etc. Sane or not, individuals react differently to booze/drugs so to say it's OK for personal enjoyment isn't really an open/shut case.
Personally I don't do drugs, I don't smoke and I rarely drink (advocaat, maybe 3 / 4 times a year only because I like the taste, a true lightweight!).
The reason I don't drink is because I can't stand the drink culture and people who think they HAVE to have a drink to have a good time, and tend to f*ck up other people's evenings by behaving like utter tits, not to mention spilling into violence. I've witnessed it too many times.
Disregarding addiction / drug crime, I really don't know how legalising drugs for personal enjoyment would affect the UK, certainly the 24hr drink thing hasn't done us any favours. I guess if people were educated enough to know their limits and to behave responsibly and to respect other people, then legalising it would be OK. But that's never going to happen, is it?
The problem is, there's always a minority who don't know their limit and that could have repercussions. The same, incidentally, applies to people who go out for a few beers on a weekend for "personal enjoyment" and start kicking off etc. etc. Sane or not, individuals react differently to booze/drugs so to say it's OK for personal enjoyment isn't really an open/shut case.
Personally I don't do drugs, I don't smoke and I rarely drink (advocaat, maybe 3 / 4 times a year only because I like the taste, a true lightweight!).
The reason I don't drink is because I can't stand the drink culture and people who think they HAVE to have a drink to have a good time, and tend to f*ck up other people's evenings by behaving like utter tits, not to mention spilling into violence. I've witnessed it too many times.
Disregarding addiction / drug crime, I really don't know how legalising drugs for personal enjoyment would affect the UK, certainly the 24hr drink thing hasn't done us any favours. I guess if people were educated enough to know their limits and to behave responsibly and to respect other people, then legalising it would be OK. But that's never going to happen, is it?
quinlad.
I've never taken Cocaine, never felt the need to take recreational drugs, so I haven't, however, I wouldn't stop, (alldependending on their job), some-one else taking them,
As you must have noticed, i've softened slightly from my original posts, but that in the light of rojash's link.
My views are fashioned mostly by London Undergrounds stance on drugs, I personally know form my Depot, (Hainault), two drivers who were sacked, both appeared to be in complete control of themselves, but because traces were found in their bloodstream, (with both it was Cocaine) they were instantly dismissed.
In the end, I guess its down to the individuals strength of will.
I've never taken Cocaine, never felt the need to take recreational drugs, so I haven't, however, I wouldn't stop, (alldependending on their job), some-one else taking them,
As you must have noticed, i've softened slightly from my original posts, but that in the light of rojash's link.
My views are fashioned mostly by London Undergrounds stance on drugs, I personally know form my Depot, (Hainault), two drivers who were sacked, both appeared to be in complete control of themselves, but because traces were found in their bloodstream, (with both it was Cocaine) they were instantly dismissed.
In the end, I guess its down to the individuals strength of will.
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