ChatterBank0 min ago
Is patriotism just fear of change?
21 Answers
What does it mean to be patriotic?
To love one's country?
Many British people claim to be patriotic but lose no opportunity to have a dig at northerners, sotherners, the Welsh, Essex man etc. In short they don't seem to like their fellow Brits much.
They often speak of the countryside but many parts of the world have similar scenary, and anyway surely it's nonsense to urge people to fight for a view ? - especially when most live in citys
It seems that they love what they've grown up with and become accustomed to. British bread, food, driving on the left, whatever.
If that's the case surely patriotism is simply fear of change, not the last refuge of the scoundrel but of the insecure?
Or am I wrong?
To love one's country?
Many British people claim to be patriotic but lose no opportunity to have a dig at northerners, sotherners, the Welsh, Essex man etc. In short they don't seem to like their fellow Brits much.
They often speak of the countryside but many parts of the world have similar scenary, and anyway surely it's nonsense to urge people to fight for a view ? - especially when most live in citys
It seems that they love what they've grown up with and become accustomed to. British bread, food, driving on the left, whatever.
If that's the case surely patriotism is simply fear of change, not the last refuge of the scoundrel but of the insecure?
Or am I wrong?
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hhmmm interesting question.
I think I am patriotic, I love my country, its beautiful, we are nice and funny people, we have freedom of speech etc, while I personally might not be well off, compared to a lot of the world I am lucky, no babies dying for want of food or clean water.
Saying that I think of myself as Scottish not British, dont know if that makes a difference.
I think I am patriotic, I love my country, its beautiful, we are nice and funny people, we have freedom of speech etc, while I personally might not be well off, compared to a lot of the world I am lucky, no babies dying for want of food or clean water.
Saying that I think of myself as Scottish not British, dont know if that makes a difference.
I consider myself patriotic, but not necessarily in the flag waving, beat the drums sense. I love the freedom of speech, the right to protest, free and fair elections on a regular basis, with multiple candidates and parties to choose from. I also love the way we have the right to be ourselves regardless of how weird we may seem to others. A society that is prepared to protect the most vulnerable is worth supporting. It may seem a bit of a cliche, but the British way is still a reasonably fair way and I like that. I think you can be patriotic and desire to look forward. I'm interested in the immigrant view of being British, as long as it retains that element of fairness that is traditionally British.
I couldn't give a fig either way deep down
But I must ask, why continually must people in Britain be attacked for defending their country.
I've travelled all over the world and people are proud of their countries generally.
Only here it seems to be moaning minnies prattling on if you defend this country
I'm scottish. I get the jokes and I don't class folk that make them racist.
But come on. What's wrong with being proud of your country? Ashamed to be british? Man I would be ashamed to say that to the wonderful people that saved our country in the first and second world war.
They fought two world wars. What for? Seems to be less and less these days. As long as you don't upset the newcomers to the country.
I'm not being racist btw. Just it's time that people were proud of our heritage as other countries are about theirs.
The thing that makes britain great isits ability to laugh at itself. Your comment about different regions taking the mickey out of each other is quinessentially british.
If you don't realise that then you should get out more.
The day we stop laughing at ourselves is the day we should give up. It's not racist. It's just the way we are.
But I must ask, why continually must people in Britain be attacked for defending their country.
I've travelled all over the world and people are proud of their countries generally.
Only here it seems to be moaning minnies prattling on if you defend this country
I'm scottish. I get the jokes and I don't class folk that make them racist.
But come on. What's wrong with being proud of your country? Ashamed to be british? Man I would be ashamed to say that to the wonderful people that saved our country in the first and second world war.
They fought two world wars. What for? Seems to be less and less these days. As long as you don't upset the newcomers to the country.
I'm not being racist btw. Just it's time that people were proud of our heritage as other countries are about theirs.
The thing that makes britain great isits ability to laugh at itself. Your comment about different regions taking the mickey out of each other is quinessentially british.
If you don't realise that then you should get out more.
The day we stop laughing at ourselves is the day we should give up. It's not racist. It's just the way we are.
" I hate patriotism, I can't stand it, man, it makes me f**king sick. It's a round world, last time I checked, okay? Y'know what I mean? I hate patriotism. "
as for being `patriotic ,YOU DIDNT HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH IT , its just about where your parents conceived you and you were born , thats all. nothing more.
if you were conceived and born in russia youd be russian , but would you be any better or any worse?
These were the words of a wise man.
B.H.
as for being `patriotic ,YOU DIDNT HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH IT , its just about where your parents conceived you and you were born , thats all. nothing more.
if you were conceived and born in russia youd be russian , but would you be any better or any worse?
These were the words of a wise man.
B.H.
Jake, great question.
On the whole, I think those who shout loudest about patriotism are those who fear change.
That said, I consider myself patriotic - I absolutely love living in England/Britain/whatever. And one of the main reasons for that is the vibrancy of our culture. It's constantly evolving, in large part due to the influences of immigrants.
I don't see it necessarily as a contradition to be patriotic and enjoy multiculturalism. Different cultures sit alongside each other here and merge together to form something new. Brilliant. Better that than stand still and stagnate.
If we didn't change so readily and let new styles and customs emerge while others die, we'd be spending our saturdays watching morris dancers and eating boiled meat and veg.
On the whole, I think those who shout loudest about patriotism are those who fear change.
That said, I consider myself patriotic - I absolutely love living in England/Britain/whatever. And one of the main reasons for that is the vibrancy of our culture. It's constantly evolving, in large part due to the influences of immigrants.
I don't see it necessarily as a contradition to be patriotic and enjoy multiculturalism. Different cultures sit alongside each other here and merge together to form something new. Brilliant. Better that than stand still and stagnate.
If we didn't change so readily and let new styles and customs emerge while others die, we'd be spending our saturdays watching morris dancers and eating boiled meat and veg.
if we were that patriotic then Indian and Chinese restaurants wouldn't do a booming trade, we'd scour the supermarkets for home grown veg, no matter what the cost. Our music charts wouldnt be awash with american rap, r/b acts and we'd be happy to sit cold and miserable on a beach in Filey rather than search for sunnier climes.
As a nation we are fairly open and welcoming to embrace what else the world has to offer - and thats to our credit. Slating people from other areas in the UK is more down to friendly banter than mistrust or hatred.
As a nation we are fairly open and welcoming to embrace what else the world has to offer - and thats to our credit. Slating people from other areas in the UK is more down to friendly banter than mistrust or hatred.
Yes but what is it that you're proud of?
Other countries have very similar if not identical political institutions - our freedoms of speech are shrinking with each parliament ( what happened to habeus corpus ).
You'd have difficulty in telling the countryside of Ireland or parts of France from Britain
Is it not just that we're brought up with a "story of Britain" and told that we have to be proud of it?
Is it not just indoctrination?
Other countries have very similar if not identical political institutions - our freedoms of speech are shrinking with each parliament ( what happened to habeus corpus ).
You'd have difficulty in telling the countryside of Ireland or parts of France from Britain
Is it not just that we're brought up with a "story of Britain" and told that we have to be proud of it?
Is it not just indoctrination?
Despite its numerous problems, this is still a great country, and its history, values and culture are something to be proud of.
Why do immigrants bypass so many countries in order to get here? People from the Indian sub continent make Britain their destination, not the numerous countries through which they have to pass in order to get here.
The problem seems to me, that too many immigrants want to live in a little India, or little Pakistan, and impose their culture on the rest of us. That is too much change too fast, and not integration.
Why do immigrants bypass so many countries in order to get here? People from the Indian sub continent make Britain their destination, not the numerous countries through which they have to pass in order to get here.
The problem seems to me, that too many immigrants want to live in a little India, or little Pakistan, and impose their culture on the rest of us. That is too much change too fast, and not integration.
I think the answer is no. There's nothing wrong with having a genuine affection for the people and country where you live, including its culture and traditions. Nothing wrong with having a sense of pride in its past achievements (even though you had nothing personally to do with them) and the good things about it's present. None of that necessarily indicates a fear of change.
However, if you start assuming that any of that makes you inherently superior to anyone that happened to be born somewhere else, or if you ever feel the urge to start marching up and down the street waving flags or using phrases like 'this glorious nation', you've probably crossed the over the line from patriot to tw&t - in my opinion.
However, if you start assuming that any of that makes you inherently superior to anyone that happened to be born somewhere else, or if you ever feel the urge to start marching up and down the street waving flags or using phrases like 'this glorious nation', you've probably crossed the over the line from patriot to tw&t - in my opinion.
As george orwell said in 1945
" By �patriotism� I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power."
I sometimes think people confuse patriotism with nationalism.
A thoroughly devisive thing that led to the rise of fascism and hitler.
Many people wh profess to be patriotic are in reality nationalistic and hide behind the guise of patriotism.
As for beetledewz if you were patriotic and youre scottish yet you talk about britain world wars etc.
i think youre more confused than patriotic.
to be patriotic you must have a country youre patriotic about .
not 3 or 4 .
" By �patriotism� I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power."
I sometimes think people confuse patriotism with nationalism.
A thoroughly devisive thing that led to the rise of fascism and hitler.
Many people wh profess to be patriotic are in reality nationalistic and hide behind the guise of patriotism.
As for beetledewz if you were patriotic and youre scottish yet you talk about britain world wars etc.
i think youre more confused than patriotic.
to be patriotic you must have a country youre patriotic about .
not 3 or 4 .
Patriotism is a subtle form of racism. We madly wave our national flags and burn those we don`t like. No matter where you were born you were bought up to believe that you lived in the best country on earth. I think it was an American general who was being vilified in the press of the day for his hawkish patriotism who said " My country, right or wrong" It`s a bit like following your favorite football team really, we know how racist that has become.
How can you love a country just because it has pretty scenary?
Surely a country is defined by it's people not it's mountains.
Personally I think you cross the line between patriotism and nationalism in the phrase
"My country right or wrong"
If your love of country is such that you have given up on your ability to make rational ethical judgements of the actions of it's people then you are out of Patriotism and into Nationalism.
If someone asks you "Would you fight for your country?"
You should answer "Why what has it done?"
If you answer "Yes" with no regard to cause you've abdicated your moral responsibility
Surely a country is defined by it's people not it's mountains.
Personally I think you cross the line between patriotism and nationalism in the phrase
"My country right or wrong"
If your love of country is such that you have given up on your ability to make rational ethical judgements of the actions of it's people then you are out of Patriotism and into Nationalism.
If someone asks you "Would you fight for your country?"
You should answer "Why what has it done?"
If you answer "Yes" with no regard to cause you've abdicated your moral responsibility
I think that people are hiding behind the banner of patriotism because if they voice their honest opinions about the state our country is in they are accused of being racist etc. I think that most Brits just want a fair crack of the whip. I used to be proud to be English but now I think that we have turned into the laughing stock of the world! If I could get away tomorrow I would.
Well AOG on another thread has called me a traitor, so it will come as no surprise to anyone who reads this, that I am uncomfortable with the notion of patriotism.
I wasn't even sure I knew what patriotism was apart from flag waving and having a false sense of superiority. I have since this question done some reading on the subject and feel more confident that I don't admire patriotism and that it is an emotive irrational state of thinking.
I do love the north Cornish coastline, but then I do love the coastline of south west Turkey. I am not going to get into a fight with anyone over the merits of either coasts.
"Primary implication of patriotism in ethical theory is that a person has more moral duties to fellow members of the national community, than to non-members".
We hear constantly people complaining about 'them' immigrants versus 'us' British. I don't understand this collective sense of British being more worthy of consideration and succor than other human beings. At a theoretical level I have a have love for all human kind, on a personal level I don't much like lots of people.
Why should charity begin and end at home, why are other people who happen to be born in the same country of more value than someone born on another continent?
"high levels of patriotism tends to be coupled with belligerency according to the Correlates of War".
I wasn't even sure I knew what patriotism was apart from flag waving and having a false sense of superiority. I have since this question done some reading on the subject and feel more confident that I don't admire patriotism and that it is an emotive irrational state of thinking.
I do love the north Cornish coastline, but then I do love the coastline of south west Turkey. I am not going to get into a fight with anyone over the merits of either coasts.
"Primary implication of patriotism in ethical theory is that a person has more moral duties to fellow members of the national community, than to non-members".
We hear constantly people complaining about 'them' immigrants versus 'us' British. I don't understand this collective sense of British being more worthy of consideration and succor than other human beings. At a theoretical level I have a have love for all human kind, on a personal level I don't much like lots of people.
Why should charity begin and end at home, why are other people who happen to be born in the same country of more value than someone born on another continent?
"high levels of patriotism tends to be coupled with belligerency according to the Correlates of War".
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