Is This The Final Nail In The Coffin For...
News1 min ago
I've always wanted to ask this.
29 Answers
For believers and non believers.
According to the Bible/Torah, Koron and other Holy writings, God has always been, so, regardless of how long he had existed, my question is,
Why do you suppose he suddenly, after all that time, to create ours and other Universes?, and more specifically, our planet, which has nothing on it, except parasites?.
According to the Bible/Torah, Koron and other Holy writings, God has always been, so, regardless of how long he had existed, my question is,
Why do you suppose he suddenly, after all that time, to create ours and other Universes?, and more specifically, our planet, which has nothing on it, except parasites?.
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i was just reading this coz i googled st Agustine and got this
It is often stated that Augustine, when asked what God was doing before the Creation, answered "Preparing Hell for people who ask questions like that" (or variations). In fact Augustine mentions this joke (Confessions, Book 11, ch. 12) in order to deplore making a laughing-stock of those who ask serious questions. (His own answer to the question is in terms of "before" being meaningless, since time was created with the world.)
heres the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hipp o
It is often stated that Augustine, when asked what God was doing before the Creation, answered "Preparing Hell for people who ask questions like that" (or variations). In fact Augustine mentions this joke (Confessions, Book 11, ch. 12) in order to deplore making a laughing-stock of those who ask serious questions. (His own answer to the question is in terms of "before" being meaningless, since time was created with the world.)
heres the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hipp o
God created this world as a test for the people. He told us what is right and what is wrong. Then he has given us a limited time here to prove if we act upon that or go astray.
Where you said this planet has nothing. I do not agree with that. I believe this planet has everything more than enough for human being. Only we people are not fair. Food, air water, fuel for our cars and so on, every thing is enough if we take care of it and share it. But we will never do that. Because that is the sign of this world being temporary and then we go back or miss the flight. Depending on what we did in this world.
This was simple explanation. But I am sure we have so many people here who would love to give you more philosophical detail.
Where you said this planet has nothing. I do not agree with that. I believe this planet has everything more than enough for human being. Only we people are not fair. Food, air water, fuel for our cars and so on, every thing is enough if we take care of it and share it. But we will never do that. Because that is the sign of this world being temporary and then we go back or miss the flight. Depending on what we did in this world.
This was simple explanation. But I am sure we have so many people here who would love to give you more philosophical detail.
-- answer removed --
You assume that time is actually the way you perceive it.
That is untrue.
It actually behaves in strange ways. There was no "before" the universe because Time "started" with it and is intricately linked to it.
The idea of things happening "before" whether you believe in a God or not time is flawed and from a religous perspective really not far off of viewing God as a white bearded Charlton Heston look-alike that lives in the sky.
That is untrue.
It actually behaves in strange ways. There was no "before" the universe because Time "started" with it and is intricately linked to it.
The idea of things happening "before" whether you believe in a God or not time is flawed and from a religous perspective really not far off of viewing God as a white bearded Charlton Heston look-alike that lives in the sky.
Maybe God doesn't have a TV to watch soaps on. So the next best thing is for him to sit back and watch our antics.
I have often wondered what the little aliens circling Earth in their space ship makes of the way that we live and treat each other.
I'm off back to animals and nature - much more civilised than thinking about humans.
I have often wondered what the little aliens circling Earth in their space ship makes of the way that we live and treat each other.
I'm off back to animals and nature - much more civilised than thinking about humans.
This actually a serious question.
SKA,
Too much in that link, perhaps you could indicate approximately which part you are referring too?.
Time,
Surely 'time' has always been there, its the one constant that is everlasting.
Mans concept of 'time', that would be when the Universe came into being, but God was there before that happened.
Imagine, if you can, nothing, absolutely nothing, except that in that nothing is God, and then for whatever reason, he decides to create us, but we, along with almost every other living creature, are nothing but Parasites.
Keyplus,
Afraid I can't go along with the 'test' bit.
SKA,
Too much in that link, perhaps you could indicate approximately which part you are referring too?.
Time,
Surely 'time' has always been there, its the one constant that is everlasting.
Mans concept of 'time', that would be when the Universe came into being, but God was there before that happened.
Imagine, if you can, nothing, absolutely nothing, except that in that nothing is God, and then for whatever reason, he decides to create us, but we, along with almost every other living creature, are nothing but Parasites.
Keyplus,
Afraid I can't go along with the 'test' bit.
I'll sincerely try to keep this brief,Lonnie, especially since you probably already know my position. Time, somewhat as jake relates only came into being at the Big Bang (which wasn't, probably, a "Bang" at all). The universe came into being, in my opinion, only one of three ways; it created itself, man created it, the Biblical God created it. In any case, the "cause" which produced the "effect" had to be outside of, larger than, totally alone in "It's" ability to produce it. I choose, based on the evidence, to believe Elohim created it by His spoken Word. He (a euphemisim) has always just... been. A concept that is nearly impossible to understand... but isn't that what one would expect of a being that could create in such a fashion? I fully realize others choose to believe otherwise and I respect their choice since no one knows... The Hebrew translation of the first verses of Genesis ( Beresh!t , in Hebrew) (Outsmarted the censor 'bots) states: "Beresh!t bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets ) has two important considerations... Elohim in Strong's concordance states "plural intensive - singular meaning" ... in plain English, means more than one but only one... this appears to be the first confirmation of the concept of the Trininty and secondly, the small word bara means created from nothing,,, no prexistening material was involved to create the heavens (hashamayim) and the earth (ha'arets)... All for the apple of His eye...
ben Avaraam, ben Yitschaq, ben Ya`aqob... and, my friend, that's you, Lonnie...
ben Avaraam, ben Yitschaq, ben Ya`aqob... and, my friend, that's you, Lonnie...
Hi naomi,
I'm sorry, its the way I am at the present time, I look around, and from where I am, there's nothing living on this planet, that doesn't feed off either a living being, or one rhat has been alive.
To my mind, that makes us a planet of Parasites, and the other thing is,
We look around, ie, from the top of a hill, and see beautiful countryside, which is pleasing to the eye, but what I see is on massive battle for survival, trees insects, even grass engaged in a fight to live,
And I think that if there's a God, then he's got tp be the evilist being there ever was, and will be.
To tell the truth, I think i've about had it with this world, and prople in particular,
That sounds terrible, but don't read the wrong thing into it, I will survive.
Clanad, i'm very honoured to be counted as one of your friends, i'll come back on your reply this evening, i'm off to work now.
I'm sorry, its the way I am at the present time, I look around, and from where I am, there's nothing living on this planet, that doesn't feed off either a living being, or one rhat has been alive.
To my mind, that makes us a planet of Parasites, and the other thing is,
We look around, ie, from the top of a hill, and see beautiful countryside, which is pleasing to the eye, but what I see is on massive battle for survival, trees insects, even grass engaged in a fight to live,
And I think that if there's a God, then he's got tp be the evilist being there ever was, and will be.
To tell the truth, I think i've about had it with this world, and prople in particular,
That sounds terrible, but don't read the wrong thing into it, I will survive.
Clanad, i'm very honoured to be counted as one of your friends, i'll come back on your reply this evening, i'm off to work now.
Hi Clanad,
I apologise for not getting back sooner, for some reason, Yesterday and this morning, (0300hrs,) I couldn't access ab.
Be that as it may, i'm on now.
An interesting concept, time began when God created the Universe, but from my viewpoint, time has always been there,
What we have is Manmade time, God, if from and, with your belief, (and I wouldn't knock that belief for one second), has always been there, so time must always have been there,
Jake intimates that i'm assuming that time is what we/I percieve it, I don't think so, but if we take time from our pespective, we have no way of knowing how long it was before God decided to create Creation.
I'm going to stop there, I just might be losing it.
I apologise for not getting back sooner, for some reason, Yesterday and this morning, (0300hrs,) I couldn't access ab.
Be that as it may, i'm on now.
An interesting concept, time began when God created the Universe, but from my viewpoint, time has always been there,
What we have is Manmade time, God, if from and, with your belief, (and I wouldn't knock that belief for one second), has always been there, so time must always have been there,
Jake intimates that i'm assuming that time is what we/I percieve it, I don't think so, but if we take time from our pespective, we have no way of knowing how long it was before God decided to create Creation.
I'm going to stop there, I just might be losing it.
A difficult concept, Lonnie... one that I can't say I grasp with certaintity. But, if it's true that God (of the Scriptures) is present entirely outside of His creation, then He has the ability to be present in time past, time present and time future at the same "instant". A good analogy is one of viewing time as being a line with marks all along its length. Since we are on that line, we can only be aware of the portion that lies under our feet, so to speak. Whereas, God is outside of the line and is present anywhere along the length a the same "time". This wasn't neccessary before the creation. Time had no meaning since all of the created beings (angels) enjoyed a oneness and and "instantness" with God. But, in His infinite wisdom, he ordained time for us to mark passages... Scripture quotes Yeshua "... "Father....You loved Me from before the foundation of the world" (John17:24)... further, The Old Covenant says, beautifully "...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
(Psalm 139:15-16). All suggesting, at least to me, the timelessness that existed before Creation and will most certainly exist again at the close of history... Shalom!
(Psalm 139:15-16). All suggesting, at least to me, the timelessness that existed before Creation and will most certainly exist again at the close of history... Shalom!
I will add to Clanads' post by using this analogy.
If you or I create something, what we create exists objectively, and we are not subject to it in any way. We continue to exist independently of what we have created, whether it is a painting or a sculpture, or whatever.
A great artist can, we say, put his very soul into his art, but that is just our way of enthusing about the artistic skill portrayed in the artwork.
A truly magnificent painting hols no constraints over the artist, and God is similarly unconstrained by His art, His creation.
If He was, then my analogy would have to include the picture of Dorian Gray.
If you or I create something, what we create exists objectively, and we are not subject to it in any way. We continue to exist independently of what we have created, whether it is a painting or a sculpture, or whatever.
A great artist can, we say, put his very soul into his art, but that is just our way of enthusing about the artistic skill portrayed in the artwork.
A truly magnificent painting hols no constraints over the artist, and God is similarly unconstrained by His art, His creation.
If He was, then my analogy would have to include the picture of Dorian Gray.
Hi Clanad and Theland,
I can fully understand what your are both saying, and in that concept, I can agree with you, but unfortunately, and i'm looking at this from manmade time,
I studied under Rabbi Hooker, if you google his name, you'll find him.
This came from then, and we had a huge arguement, (not discussion, arguement) because he told me exactly what God was, and I don't believe there's anyone alive who can say that.
Anyway, part of the Jewish sevice says, 'God is, God always will be, and God always was',
The first two I can get to grips with, but not the last,
and thats part of my problem, because there are obviously people, including both of you, that have the faith to believe that, and I congratulate you.
cont
I can fully understand what your are both saying, and in that concept, I can agree with you, but unfortunately, and i'm looking at this from manmade time,
I studied under Rabbi Hooker, if you google his name, you'll find him.
This came from then, and we had a huge arguement, (not discussion, arguement) because he told me exactly what God was, and I don't believe there's anyone alive who can say that.
Anyway, part of the Jewish sevice says, 'God is, God always will be, and God always was',
The first two I can get to grips with, but not the last,
and thats part of my problem, because there are obviously people, including both of you, that have the faith to believe that, and I congratulate you.
cont
Hi Lonnie, First of all you sound a bit down, are you ok? I know this is going away from what you ask, but, I can't add to your question basically because when it comes to this sort of debate I am completely and utterly "Thick" is there a God? this is where I struggle to believe, if a God is, then maybe one of you learned ones can explain to me, just why the things that happen, are allowed to just happen? simple terms please because I am a simple man, if the lamighty controls the world and sees all, Why do such awfull things happen, I am appalled at what goes on unchecked in the world, no good saying well they pay for it come judgement day, what about the poor sods they have done the dirtrty deed to?killed,raped,abused, molested etc, these people that do these things survive, please tel me why!!!
cont
Under Rabbi Hooker, I was asked to do a paper on God, and my own conception of God, (wish now I hadn't)
Anyway, Time as we know it, and its the only way of looking at this, (I think), has always been there, as God has, so at one point, God decided to create what we know as creation, and I'm afraid I just can't get to grips with the idea.
But I thank both of you, naomi and the others for for your well informed and thoughtful answers.
Under Rabbi Hooker, I was asked to do a paper on God, and my own conception of God, (wish now I hadn't)
Anyway, Time as we know it, and its the only way of looking at this, (I think), has always been there, as God has, so at one point, God decided to create what we know as creation, and I'm afraid I just can't get to grips with the idea.
But I thank both of you, naomi and the others for for your well informed and thoughtful answers.
-- answer removed --
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