News1 min ago
Punidhed!
119 Answers
I would really like some opinions on this please.
My seven -half year old daughter came home today saying that she was punished in her R.E class because when they played some Indian (Pakistan) music it made her giggle.
She just thought it was strange sounding music, but the teacher sat her down and told her to write a letter of apology to the Muslims in the class.
I am absolutely livid to say the least and really would appreciate some feedback on what I should do.
thanks in advance
My seven -half year old daughter came home today saying that she was punished in her R.E class because when they played some Indian (Pakistan) music it made her giggle.
She just thought it was strange sounding music, but the teacher sat her down and told her to write a letter of apology to the Muslims in the class.
I am absolutely livid to say the least and really would appreciate some feedback on what I should do.
thanks in advance
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I'm with Jake. Do you instantly believe everything your child tells you? Could it be that she's being economical with the truth?
It's also interesting that your frame your complaint in child-like, innocent, involuntary language.
"when they played some Indian (Pakistan) music it made her giggle... She just thought it was strange sounding music."
You could just as easily have written:
"However my daughter chose to openly laugh at Muslim culture, in front of Muslim classmates."
Not that either is the greatest crime in the world. But it may be that she's not the goody two-shoes you imagine?
It's also interesting that your frame your complaint in child-like, innocent, involuntary language.
"when they played some Indian (Pakistan) music it made her giggle... She just thought it was strange sounding music."
You could just as easily have written:
"However my daughter chose to openly laugh at Muslim culture, in front of Muslim classmates."
Not that either is the greatest crime in the world. But it may be that she's not the goody two-shoes you imagine?
It's interesting - ninety per cent of the responses have been knee-jerk rections, only a very few have asked icemaiden to ascertain the full facts before leaping to any conclusions in the way that almost all posters have done - with merely the barest information on which to make a judgement.
I recall my middle daughter coming home aged four, advising she had been told off for 'doing nothing' at school.
At Parents' Evening' a few nights later, we got the 'other side' of the story -
having asked for permssion to go to the toilet, our daughter was absent for twenty minutes, and when the teacher went to find her, she was lying on the floor of her toilet stall with half her body wedged under the partition, so she could sing Christmas carols at the top of her voice to the chilkd in the next stall!
Teachers are not stupid - neither are children. Get the full facts first, instead of making a potential fool of yourself - as most of the posters here seem keen for you to do.
I recall my middle daughter coming home aged four, advising she had been told off for 'doing nothing' at school.
At Parents' Evening' a few nights later, we got the 'other side' of the story -
having asked for permssion to go to the toilet, our daughter was absent for twenty minutes, and when the teacher went to find her, she was lying on the floor of her toilet stall with half her body wedged under the partition, so she could sing Christmas carols at the top of her voice to the chilkd in the next stall!
Teachers are not stupid - neither are children. Get the full facts first, instead of making a potential fool of yourself - as most of the posters here seem keen for you to do.
I completely agree with Andy � Hughes and jake. Still no one knows what happened and look at this 46 responses all together and most of them are so keen to take this matter to as far as media. I have children of my own and agree with jake that children see things differently. You go and speak to her teacher and most probably would find that it was nothing whatsoever. First of all I am not sure what sort of Music they were playing for Muslims. In Islam there is no music which has direct link with religion.
Icem iden, I am not sure about the others but I will remind you again to tell here what exactly did you find out.
Icem iden, I am not sure about the others but I will remind you again to tell here what exactly did you find out.
Irrespective of what the whole story is...
The teacher could have just told a child to simmer down, or not to giggle, but to ask a child to write a letter of apology is beyond belief, even as an adult I am giggly and still giggle at innapropriate times, its human nature and its not to be apologised for by a 7�yr old surely - no matter what the full story is.
Cant children have their innocence back !!!!
The teacher could have just told a child to simmer down, or not to giggle, but to ask a child to write a letter of apology is beyond belief, even as an adult I am giggly and still giggle at innapropriate times, its human nature and its not to be apologised for by a 7�yr old surely - no matter what the full story is.
Cant children have their innocence back !!!!
ok here we go. too cut a conversation very short.
My partner and I spoke to the class teacher and it turns out that the events that our daughter told us were correct.
The class Teacher was clearly on the defensive when we saw her. Body language was very negative and her attitude along with the way she spoke, was very abrupt. When we asked her if the Muslim children were visibly upset by the giggling, she said yes. We gave her the oppotunity to elaborate on this but she clearly didn't want to say how they reacted.
There were also other children involved i.e giggling too. And these were punished in the same way.
I stressed that by giggling, a 7 year old would not feel this was disrespectful, only that what she had heard had made her laugh. An innocent reaction in my eyes. I suggested that maybe sending her out of the classroom to calm down would have been a better way of dealing with the situation, to this I had no reply, just a shrug of shoulders.
She stands by her decision to punish the children in this way, so we have organised an appointment with the Head Teacher tomorrow.
I will keep every one informed.
My partner and I spoke to the class teacher and it turns out that the events that our daughter told us were correct.
The class Teacher was clearly on the defensive when we saw her. Body language was very negative and her attitude along with the way she spoke, was very abrupt. When we asked her if the Muslim children were visibly upset by the giggling, she said yes. We gave her the oppotunity to elaborate on this but she clearly didn't want to say how they reacted.
There were also other children involved i.e giggling too. And these were punished in the same way.
I stressed that by giggling, a 7 year old would not feel this was disrespectful, only that what she had heard had made her laugh. An innocent reaction in my eyes. I suggested that maybe sending her out of the classroom to calm down would have been a better way of dealing with the situation, to this I had no reply, just a shrug of shoulders.
She stands by her decision to punish the children in this way, so we have organised an appointment with the Head Teacher tomorrow.
I will keep every one informed.
I thank all the people who have taken the time to answer.
many of your comments helped me to bring across to the Teacher how I felt. I am not very good at expressing myself vocally as I can never find the appropiate words or phrases to use.
Many of you were bang on to how I was feeling and what my beliefs are and you all put them in a better way for me.
Much appreciated.
many of your comments helped me to bring across to the Teacher how I felt. I am not very good at expressing myself vocally as I can never find the appropiate words or phrases to use.
Many of you were bang on to how I was feeling and what my beliefs are and you all put them in a better way for me.
Much appreciated.
for information purposes the events were as follows.
Teacher tells class that they will now listen to music and prayer from Muslim religion.
Children listen to music, some giggle.
Teacher tells giggling children to stop. Children do.
Teacher plays Muslim prayer, Children giggle again, told to stop. Children did.
Music and prayer continue to play. No more giggling.
Teacher pulls out "giggling Children". Punishment is writing a letter of apology to Muslim Children. Give letters to Muslim children.
Daughter comes home, puzzled to why she was punished. Asked her why she laughed, reply from her was, "I laughed because it sounded funny".
Teacher tells class that they will now listen to music and prayer from Muslim religion.
Children listen to music, some giggle.
Teacher tells giggling children to stop. Children do.
Teacher plays Muslim prayer, Children giggle again, told to stop. Children did.
Music and prayer continue to play. No more giggling.
Teacher pulls out "giggling Children". Punishment is writing a letter of apology to Muslim Children. Give letters to Muslim children.
Daughter comes home, puzzled to why she was punished. Asked her why she laughed, reply from her was, "I laughed because it sounded funny".
I don't know if this was an RE lesson but you are within your rights tio ask for your child to be withdrawn from RE lessons.
Schools don't like parents doing this as it's a bit of a headache for them and it's not necessarilly good for the kids as it seperates them out.
You might however find it interesting to suggest to the head that you're considering doing this (even if you're not).
Other than that I've always found that the best thing to do in these sort of situations is to have a very clear idea in my head what I want before I go in and meet the teachers and actually ask for it.
In other words - do you want her to move class?, do you want an apology? etc. and make sure that you tell the head that this is what you want.
Otherwise these conversations have a habit of going around in circles and people get frustrated
The other thing is that the Headteacher will probably be expecting to deal with an angry ranting parent. - If you calmly and clearly express your position but are happy to leave it at that, you'll probably build up some political capital with the school for some time in the future when you may need it.
I certainly found that the calm reasonable position I took with the school over incidents with my children stood me in good stead when last year my son was not on the side of the angels!
Schools don't like parents doing this as it's a bit of a headache for them and it's not necessarilly good for the kids as it seperates them out.
You might however find it interesting to suggest to the head that you're considering doing this (even if you're not).
Other than that I've always found that the best thing to do in these sort of situations is to have a very clear idea in my head what I want before I go in and meet the teachers and actually ask for it.
In other words - do you want her to move class?, do you want an apology? etc. and make sure that you tell the head that this is what you want.
Otherwise these conversations have a habit of going around in circles and people get frustrated
The other thing is that the Headteacher will probably be expecting to deal with an angry ranting parent. - If you calmly and clearly express your position but are happy to leave it at that, you'll probably build up some political capital with the school for some time in the future when you may need it.
I certainly found that the calm reasonable position I took with the school over incidents with my children stood me in good stead when last year my son was not on the side of the angels!
Given that version of events, it still sounds to me like the teacher was doing the right thing. I'm not trying to be contrary.
Whether or not there was any malice in your daughter's laughing (and it sounds as if there wasn't), isn't it a good idea for her to learn about respecting other people's feelings? By writing a letter to the potentially offended children, she has to think about how they might have felt about her laughing. If she's just sent out of the room or given a telling off, she doesn't learn this as well.
We have to learn not to laugh at everything we find funny. Another 7 year old might laugh at a kid who'd had both legs amputated. Just because they find it funny, doesn't mean they shouldn't be swiftly taught that it's not a nice thing to do. I hope the fact that it's a Muslim issue isn't clouding your judgement here.
Good luck with it though.
Whether or not there was any malice in your daughter's laughing (and it sounds as if there wasn't), isn't it a good idea for her to learn about respecting other people's feelings? By writing a letter to the potentially offended children, she has to think about how they might have felt about her laughing. If she's just sent out of the room or given a telling off, she doesn't learn this as well.
We have to learn not to laugh at everything we find funny. Another 7 year old might laugh at a kid who'd had both legs amputated. Just because they find it funny, doesn't mean they shouldn't be swiftly taught that it's not a nice thing to do. I hope the fact that it's a Muslim issue isn't clouding your judgement here.
Good luck with it though.
It's true that kids have to learn they can't laugh at everything.
That's why it was right to tell them to stop giggling, and that's where it should have ended.
I think it's also important to learn that sometimes when people to do things that offend you, - well that's just tough basically. None of us have a god given right to go through life never being offended, or expecting to receive a written apology when we are.
Sounds like the teacher needs a lesson in tolerance just as much as the kids. I repeat - the kids are seven years old - if they were fifteen it might be different.
That's why it was right to tell them to stop giggling, and that's where it should have ended.
I think it's also important to learn that sometimes when people to do things that offend you, - well that's just tough basically. None of us have a god given right to go through life never being offended, or expecting to receive a written apology when we are.
Sounds like the teacher needs a lesson in tolerance just as much as the kids. I repeat - the kids are seven years old - if they were fifteen it might be different.
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