Christmas In The Good Old Days
ChatterBank27 mins ago
Alcohol
41 Answers
Well, we know that this is a problem with binge drinking and Friday / Saturday nights.
So what do you think about the following ideas:
1) Alcohol can only be served in single units. This means that you can only have a single glass of alcohol at a time. For spirits, this is pretty easy - one shot of 25ml for a 40% alcohol.
For bottles, again easy, manufacturers can only sell bottles that contain one unit.
Wines - whilst I realise that alcohol volumes can vary, this means that wine can only be served as a 125ml glass maximum.
Beers - this would be slightly more complex, but the 'normal strength' larger (up to say 5%) can only be served in half pints and higher strength ones would have to be in 1/3 pint glasses.
I believe that this would have two effects - one is that people know and understand exactly how many units they are consuming - no guess work involved. Secondly, I think that this will lower the amount people drank - one because of the extra hassle, and second because people will be more aware.
cont
So what do you think about the following ideas:
1) Alcohol can only be served in single units. This means that you can only have a single glass of alcohol at a time. For spirits, this is pretty easy - one shot of 25ml for a 40% alcohol.
For bottles, again easy, manufacturers can only sell bottles that contain one unit.
Wines - whilst I realise that alcohol volumes can vary, this means that wine can only be served as a 125ml glass maximum.
Beers - this would be slightly more complex, but the 'normal strength' larger (up to say 5%) can only be served in half pints and higher strength ones would have to be in 1/3 pint glasses.
I believe that this would have two effects - one is that people know and understand exactly how many units they are consuming - no guess work involved. Secondly, I think that this will lower the amount people drank - one because of the extra hassle, and second because people will be more aware.
cont
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As I have said on another thread, people aleady know that they are allowed 3 units (2 for women) which is 2 pintsish a day. The problem is that they choose to ignore the advice.
Actually, this is exactly the problem.
1 pint of Stella = 3 pints.
1 pint of Kronenburg = 2.8 units.
1 pint of Carling = 2.3 units
1 large glass of wine = 3 units
Therefore your 2 pints a day actually puts you at double your units at worst (not counting Special Brew = 5.1 units per pint) or 1.5 times over at best.
So I don't believe people do understand the units system.
Actually, this is exactly the problem.
1 pint of Stella = 3 pints.
1 pint of Kronenburg = 2.8 units.
1 pint of Carling = 2.3 units
1 large glass of wine = 3 units
Therefore your 2 pints a day actually puts you at double your units at worst (not counting Special Brew = 5.1 units per pint) or 1.5 times over at best.
So I don't believe people do understand the units system.
naomi - yes I have worked in a bar, and I agree that a lot of times it is difficult to figure out who is in what group (or indeed if people are just by themselves). Maybe every bar should have bar people on the floor whose job it is to ensure that the rules are taken.
Whilst I agree that people do have to have personal responsibility, I do think that the government have to have some rules - especially for such a dangerous drug.
Whilst I agree that people do have to have personal responsibility, I do think that the government have to have some rules - especially for such a dangerous drug.
The Guidelines say
Men should drink no more than 21 units of alcohol per week (and no more than four units in any one day).
A normal pint of bitter is 2 units, therefore I can safely say I can have 2 pintsish.
I know if I drink something stronger like Stella (I wouldn't), then I should drink less than 2 pints.
It is not rocket science. People know what is too much, but they choose to drink more anyway. People who claim ignorance are in denial, and people who believe them are gullible.
Men should drink no more than 21 units of alcohol per week (and no more than four units in any one day).
A normal pint of bitter is 2 units, therefore I can safely say I can have 2 pintsish.
I know if I drink something stronger like Stella (I wouldn't), then I should drink less than 2 pints.
It is not rocket science. People know what is too much, but they choose to drink more anyway. People who claim ignorance are in denial, and people who believe them are gullible.
gromit, you have gone from saying: As I have said on another thread, people aleady know that they are allowed 3 units (2 for women) which is 2 pintsish a day. The problem is that they choose to ignore the advice.
to now saying: Men should drink no more than 21 units of alcohol per week (and no more than four units in any one day).
So from 3 units to maybe 4 units in a few posts.
If you drink beers, then a pint of John Smiths is actually 2.3 units (the average for beer) and a pint of Old Speckled Hen is 2.6 units.
So now your 2 'pintsish' has turned into at least 4.5 units, maybe more.
To keep within the weekly guidance, you would need to drink an average of less than 1 1/2 pints. You cannot currently get served less than 1/2 pint.
Maybe it is not so easy?
to now saying: Men should drink no more than 21 units of alcohol per week (and no more than four units in any one day).
So from 3 units to maybe 4 units in a few posts.
If you drink beers, then a pint of John Smiths is actually 2.3 units (the average for beer) and a pint of Old Speckled Hen is 2.6 units.
So now your 2 'pintsish' has turned into at least 4.5 units, maybe more.
To keep within the weekly guidance, you would need to drink an average of less than 1 1/2 pints. You cannot currently get served less than 1/2 pint.
Maybe it is not so easy?
groan.
The guidlines say 21 units in 7 days (3 a day) but they also say no more than 4 units in a day.
The bitter I drink is 3.7% and is rated at 2 units. Therefore I can drink 2 pints and I am not having more than 4 units a day.
It is not rocket science for me, but it clearly is for you. No wonder you are calling for the idiot measures you propose in your question.
The guidlines say 21 units in 7 days (3 a day) but they also say no more than 4 units in a day.
The bitter I drink is 3.7% and is rated at 2 units. Therefore I can drink 2 pints and I am not having more than 4 units a day.
It is not rocket science for me, but it clearly is for you. No wonder you are calling for the idiot measures you propose in your question.
Vic, I sympathise with what you're saying, but my solution would come from a different angle.
Anybody, such as me, who uses a small local pub will know that the problems don't normally come from these places. Binge drinking (definition anyone?) goes on in the newer places, often converted from banks, cinemas etc. Frankly, why anybody would want to go into them is beyond me:
Always too hot, you drink more when hot,
Always too loud, you drink more when you can't have a conversation
Never enough tables, you drink more when you have to hold it rather than rest it on a table
Only sell salted snacks, obvious why
Now I firmly believe that a pint is exactly the right measure for beer, just personal choice, but to me it seems right. I also tend to go for the weaker beers in the bar, primarily because the reason for being there is primarily the blether with my mates, not getting bladdered.
There is all manner of talk at the moment about pricing perople out of drinking, the typical politician's solution to any problem is to put the price up. The only thing I would say is that there's probably a case to be made for making the stronger lagers much more expensive than the weaker ones. At the moment, in my local Stella is only 10p dearer than Becks, but has 25% more alcohol in it. (Becks is 4%, Stella 5%, I believe)
This one will run and run.
Anybody, such as me, who uses a small local pub will know that the problems don't normally come from these places. Binge drinking (definition anyone?) goes on in the newer places, often converted from banks, cinemas etc. Frankly, why anybody would want to go into them is beyond me:
Always too hot, you drink more when hot,
Always too loud, you drink more when you can't have a conversation
Never enough tables, you drink more when you have to hold it rather than rest it on a table
Only sell salted snacks, obvious why
Now I firmly believe that a pint is exactly the right measure for beer, just personal choice, but to me it seems right. I also tend to go for the weaker beers in the bar, primarily because the reason for being there is primarily the blether with my mates, not getting bladdered.
There is all manner of talk at the moment about pricing perople out of drinking, the typical politician's solution to any problem is to put the price up. The only thing I would say is that there's probably a case to be made for making the stronger lagers much more expensive than the weaker ones. At the moment, in my local Stella is only 10p dearer than Becks, but has 25% more alcohol in it. (Becks is 4%, Stella 5%, I believe)
This one will run and run.
It is not rocket science for me, but it clearly is for you. No wonder you are calling for the idiot measures you propose in your question. actually it's not for me, I don't drink that much. It is though quite a big problem for other drinkers. Obviously they don't have your intellect.
On the basis that 43% of drinks do not display the number of units (survey undertaken by KPMG) , it seems that a large proportion of people will not be able to know the number of units in their chosen drink.
On the basis that 43% of drinks do not display the number of units (survey undertaken by KPMG) , it seems that a large proportion of people will not be able to know the number of units in their chosen drink.
And of course the other problem is disinformation. People like you say that you can have about a couple of pints a day and that will be your 3 units.
You make no statement to the effect that you drink a lower than average alcohol bitter.
So a lot of people taking your advice in good faith will be having more than they think.
You make no statement to the effect that you drink a lower than average alcohol bitter.
So a lot of people taking your advice in good faith will be having more than they think.
-- answer removed --
I think your ideas are good. But don't know how they could realistically be enforced. I also agree that the vast majority of people don't know exactly how many units they're drinking, as different wines, different beers etc have different potency. It may not be rocket science, but it is still quite complicated for most people to follow, when they're adding up their units on a night out drinking. So I agree people should be told exactly how many units there are in the drink they've just been served.
You must drink with some very dumb people Vic.
The pumps where you buy the beer (or else it is displayed) have the alcohol strength on it. I know that if I am going to have a few, then I will drink a session beer (something between 3.5% and 4%). There are plenty of them. They are not rare. I suppose if you class Special Brew (9%) on your scale, then something at 4% is below average, but most people know that Special Brew is for alchys.
I know that if I drank the same amount in Stella which has 5% ABV on the pump, I would fall over. Maybe i am gifted in knowing this, but I assumed it was commonsense.
Everyone should know the more alcohol in a drink, the more pi55ed you get. Anyone claiming not to know is lying or is stupid.
The pumps where you buy the beer (or else it is displayed) have the alcohol strength on it. I know that if I am going to have a few, then I will drink a session beer (something between 3.5% and 4%). There are plenty of them. They are not rare. I suppose if you class Special Brew (9%) on your scale, then something at 4% is below average, but most people know that Special Brew is for alchys.
I know that if I drank the same amount in Stella which has 5% ABV on the pump, I would fall over. Maybe i am gifted in knowing this, but I assumed it was commonsense.
Everyone should know the more alcohol in a drink, the more pi55ed you get. Anyone claiming not to know is lying or is stupid.
So we are now changing the definition of stupid from understanding how percentage alcohol equates to units to Everyone should know the more alcohol in a drink, the more pi55ed you get. Anyone claiming not to know is lying or is stupid.
We also seem to have gone from 2 'pintsish' to a 'session'.
You started off by saying that you drink two pintsish and see this as 3 units. When tackled about this, you asserted that you drink a normal pint of bitter which is 2 units. When I explained that the average bitter (4%) is actually 2.3 units, you then went on to state that the bitter you drank is 3.7%.
Finally, you say that you if you were going to 'have a few' then you would have a session beer (3.5% - 4% - as stated this can be 2.3 units a pint, not 2 units per pint)) This implies that if you were only going to have one or two you would drink a higher percentage.
Still, glad to see that you find this easy and not too confusing.
Shome mishtake shurely.
We also seem to have gone from 2 'pintsish' to a 'session'.
You started off by saying that you drink two pintsish and see this as 3 units. When tackled about this, you asserted that you drink a normal pint of bitter which is 2 units. When I explained that the average bitter (4%) is actually 2.3 units, you then went on to state that the bitter you drank is 3.7%.
Finally, you say that you if you were going to 'have a few' then you would have a session beer (3.5% - 4% - as stated this can be 2.3 units a pint, not 2 units per pint)) This implies that if you were only going to have one or two you would drink a higher percentage.
Still, glad to see that you find this easy and not too confusing.
Shome mishtake shurely.
Vic, have you had a few already today?
I know I am allowed 2 pintsish, but sometimes I know I am going to drink more than that. That is what I have been saying all along. People know but ignore it.
If there was a 3 foot neon sign that flashed the number of units in the drink they had just purchased, binge drinkers would still drink more that the recommended units.
Your insistence that people binge drink because they do not know the details of their drinks is not credible.
It appears you are easily confused, so here is a simple guide:
1 medium glass of wine = Good
2 mediums glasses of wine = OK
1 Bottle of wine = Bad
2 Bottles of wine = Very Bad
I know I am allowed 2 pintsish, but sometimes I know I am going to drink more than that. That is what I have been saying all along. People know but ignore it.
If there was a 3 foot neon sign that flashed the number of units in the drink they had just purchased, binge drinkers would still drink more that the recommended units.
Your insistence that people binge drink because they do not know the details of their drinks is not credible.
It appears you are easily confused, so here is a simple guide:
1 medium glass of wine = Good
2 mediums glasses of wine = OK
1 Bottle of wine = Bad
2 Bottles of wine = Very Bad
i have never stated I do drink 2 pintsish,
I have said I know I can have 4 units and not exceed the daily limit.
The advice I have always followed id that beer between 3.5% and 4% is 2 units. Obviously their is a variation there, but that is what they say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/72 02183.stm
I have said I know I can have 4 units and not exceed the daily limit.
The advice I have always followed id that beer between 3.5% and 4% is 2 units. Obviously their is a variation there, but that is what they say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/72 02183.stm
Maybe you can tell me what a 'medium' glass of wine is? maybe you can also say how many units are in this glass.
Most pubs now sell either small (175ml) or large (250ml) glasses.
Wines vary in units - a 9% wine will give a 1.6 unit per 175ml glass and a 14% wine will give 2.5 units per 175ml glass. So your 'okay' two medium glasses could be around 6 units - 50% more than the recommended daily allowance.
2 small glasses of wine is on average 4.2 units.
2 large glasses of wine is on average 6 units.
So by assumption that a fictitious medium glass is half way between the two you are saying that 5 units are okay?
Your insistence that people understand what a unit is, is looking frankly ridiculous as you don't understand it yourself.
Most pubs now sell either small (175ml) or large (250ml) glasses.
Wines vary in units - a 9% wine will give a 1.6 unit per 175ml glass and a 14% wine will give 2.5 units per 175ml glass. So your 'okay' two medium glasses could be around 6 units - 50% more than the recommended daily allowance.
2 small glasses of wine is on average 4.2 units.
2 large glasses of wine is on average 6 units.
So by assumption that a fictitious medium glass is half way between the two you are saying that 5 units are okay?
Your insistence that people understand what a unit is, is looking frankly ridiculous as you don't understand it yourself.
Just seen the link you posted - you are going on a medium glass being 175ml with the pretty much obsolete 125ml being a small glass.
The 125ml glass doesn't tend to exist any more, having been replaced by the 175ml glass.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2197767 /Wine-glass-sizes-must-be-smaller,-say-MPs-and -doctors.html
Just like a single spirit shot is now being changed from 25ml to 35ml in a lot of pubs.
If you were to go to a pub and ask for a small glass of wine, you would more than likely get served a 175ml (medium) glass of wine.
This means that you are drinking more than intended.
The 125ml glass doesn't tend to exist any more, having been replaced by the 175ml glass.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2197767 /Wine-glass-sizes-must-be-smaller,-say-MPs-and -doctors.html
Just like a single spirit shot is now being changed from 25ml to 35ml in a lot of pubs.
If you were to go to a pub and ask for a small glass of wine, you would more than likely get served a 175ml (medium) glass of wine.
This means that you are drinking more than intended.
My insistence is not that people know the unit(s) for every variable of drink and glass size. Though, it is useful to have a rough guide as in my link above.
I am insisting, however, that people know when they are binge drinking and they know they are exceeding the recommendations.
You could have 2 glasses of wine and there could be some confusion as to whether you have had your daily limit or not. But if you are going to binge drink and have 5 or 6+ glasses of wine, or 8 pints of Stella, there is no ambiguity.
The suggestions in your question, would not have the desired effect on the people it is aimed at.
I am insisting, however, that people know when they are binge drinking and they know they are exceeding the recommendations.
You could have 2 glasses of wine and there could be some confusion as to whether you have had your daily limit or not. But if you are going to binge drink and have 5 or 6+ glasses of wine, or 8 pints of Stella, there is no ambiguity.
The suggestions in your question, would not have the desired effect on the people it is aimed at.
-- answer removed --
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