What determines who is Black?

[Lonnie]

Going on from brionons question, its always puzzled me how, eg, the president of the Black police Association, can be classed as Black, when he plainly is not, and there are many examples of this, all over.

Obviously, a lot of West Indians can be called black, but there's a lot that are bordering on white, but they are called black.

Also, the majority of Indians aren't black, but they are classed as that.

How so?.

[funnygirl]

I think it is a matter of choice rather than colour.

A lot of mixed raced people regarding themselves as black rather than white. I think it is because of the way they've been brought up. The culture, the things black people do that whites don't, the talk (slang/patois) and maybe food.

So they tend to lean to the black side rather than the white side.

[whiffy]

You are out of date, the 'in' term is BME - Black and Minority Ethnic. Translated this means anything but White. It carries with it of course the ever-present overtones of the White man oppressing the BME man, over-running his country, building railways, improving the quality of life, and generally being a technically advanced productive nuisance.

What is going to be so very interesting is when the BMinorityE in Britain becomes the BMajorityE. I think it might slightly gladden my heart to think of all the Halal butchers contributing to my old-age healthcare.

[Lonnie]

funnygirl,
Your right inasmuch its a matter of choice, but thats for the individual, but how about legally?, I mean, if a white person chose to call him/herself black, would they be allowed to join a Black persons only association,
A brown person can, but obviously, they are not black.

Whiffey,
Thanks for that snippet, yes, obviously I am out of date, a useful bit of info, worth remembering for the future.

[funnygirl]

I don't know of any legal laws where blacks cannot join white organisations and vice versa.

To be honest, would you want to??

Lunar sea, you're protesting too much, I find people who make declarations such as "I'm not racist" usually are !!! :-)

[brionon]

Lonnie-I've often wondered the same. Why not call a person with one Black Parent and one white-White?

[funnygirl]

Some of my friends who have mixed parents, still regard themselves as Black !!

[funnygirl]

How true Luna sea!

So you have been on the end of racist remarks, not nice is it ??!!

Like you I don't rise to the bait except when you get the real ignorant verbal ones!!!

You can say black you know instead of ethic ancestry !!
You sound posh saying that. :-)

[funnygirl]

Hackney!!!

You're just down the road from me in Tottenham!!!

[Lonnie]

Thanks for all your answers.

brionon,
Your reply is something i've always wondered also, but as I said earlier, its a personal choice, and because a person is three quarters white, just a tint of colour, maybe from a Grandparent, they call themselves Black, and are accepted as such.

[jno]

historically, it was the white people who instigated these racial classifications - I suspect it was for greater exactness in slave trading. Words like mulatto, quadroon, sambo, mestizo all had specific meanings. Some of them are mentioned here:

http://www.bartleby.com/68/79/3979.html

In the southern USA or South Africa, someone a quarter black could never be white; and though Britain did not have written rules on these things I should be surprised if a quadroon was ever accepted into English society on the same terms as a white person either. Even now, if they called themselves white I suspect there would be quite a few people on AB pointing out that they aren't really.

[Lonnie]

Thanks jno, hadn't actually thought about it from that point of view, but of course, its right, and most interesting.

[fredpuli47]

Leave Cilla Black out of this! She was born Priscilla White! Her name was changed by some agent, probably Brian Epstein, the Beatles' manager, when she started out on her career.

[terambulan]

Black people refer to themselves as black. I would refer to people by what they are asian/jamaican/african/chinese.

I think we all know the make up of the different races, so if my OH is red-indian would you think of Gandhi or Hiawatha?

[Velvetee]

I don't classify Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans etc) as black and from what I know of them, know they would feel affronted to be described as black.

As far as I am concerned, being black means your roots are derived from the Caribbean or Africa.