Should we talk to the Taliban?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/arti cle-1068951/The-war-Taliban-won-says-British-o fficer-Afghanistan.html

If the UK's most senior commander in Afghanistan Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith has warned that Britain could not expect to 'win the war' against the Taliban.

And

Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the British army, said: 'We have not yet decided what our objectives are in Afghanistan.

And

Liberal Democrat Shadow Defence Secretary Nick Harvey added: 'Brigadier Carleton-Smith is right to say that a decisive military victory in Afghanistan is unrealistic

And

An MoD spokesman said: 'We have always said there is no military solution in Afghanistan.

What the hell are we doing out there then?

Any more lives lost while this defeatest attitude prevails is nothing short of criminal, and we should get around the negotiating table with the Taliban forthwith

[peggys-dad]

They (the taliban) would see that as tantamount to a surrender by the West and we would end up losing face.

We should only talk to them from a position of strength. This conflict is going to take many years to resolve, but, just like in Northern Ireland, there will eventually be peace, unfortunately that peace will cost us more UK soldiers lives, however, they are losing more fighters than we are. Look at when the Royal Anglian Regt was there last year, they lost 9 men, the taliban had 1,000+ killed, not bad attrition rate in my book

[keyplus90]

I said this long time ago that Taliban will become Heroes yet once again. Keep watching.

[Lonnie]

I've said it before, this is a war we can't win, so the sooner we talk the better, its probably the best option.

I'm not taking anything away from our forces out there, they are doing a terrific job, under the circumstances, but to fight and win, you have to have the support of the local populace, which we don't have.

Compare Afghanistan now, with Malaya in the 1950s, and look at the difference between how the nationals are, and did behave.

[Gromit]

Any solution to this war or any decision to end our involvement in it will not come from Whitehall, but from the Whitehouse. The result of the US elections will decide the fate of Afghanistan, and our troops there.
If the Democrats get in, a serious attempt will be made for the US (and the UK) to extract themselves from this unwinable war. If the Republicans get in, it will be business as usual, and this war will drag on for many years.

Another consideration to bear in mind is the $1trillion the current wars are costing the US taxpayer. It may decide that the cost is not worth it, and vote accordingly.

[rov1200]

Maybe the Saudis have the right idea when dealing with terrorists. They changed tack when the Islamic fundamentalists started bombing Saudi Arabia. Before that they supported the Islamic preachings.

They use a softly-sofly aproach to wean the captured terrorists of violence by giving them lavish facilities and when indocrinated into western values give each of them about �30,000 to start a new life. Would it work here?

[Gromit]

The Saudis are the root cause of Islamic terrorism. They do not tolerate any nonsense at home, but happily fund the insurgents abroad. In effect, they solve their home grown terrorism problems by exporting it to other countries.

[anotheoldgit]

I'm not taking anything away from our forces out there, they are doing a terrific job, under the circumstances, but to fight and win, you have to have the support of the local populace, which we don't have.

Couldn't agree more Lonnie, but I am sorry to say that our Forces don't even have the support of their own countymen.

But then that is one of the many disadvantages we have come to expect from our now multi-ethnic country. Very little patriotism left, that was once shown i'm afraid.

[andy-hughes]

peggys-dad, the apparent wish to view deaths in combat as some kind of statistical trade-off is the thinking that allows this war to continue, and not be won.

The definition of a 'terrorist' depends whose gun barrel you are looking down.

Negotiation has to be the way out of this conflict, and if the West 'looses face', then so be it - isn't that preferable to loosing lives?

[Gromit]

anotheoldgit

So wishing our troops to be pulled from an unwinnable war is unpatriotic. And keeping them in danger and at risk of death, for nothing, is presumably then, patriotic.

If I was putting my life on the line everyday I would want to think there was a point to my being there. The fact that the soldiers and the top brass know it is a lost cause, and I was only dodging the bullets because the politicians and the so called patriots were goading us on would probably anger me more.

[keyplus90]

I think perhaps we should attack Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan now.

And say to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq.............. Sorry mate our mistake and thats it let them die as a result of our gift of invasion there.

[keyplus90]

keyplus90
Mon 28/07/08
22:58 If anyone thinks that either in Iraq or Afghanistan there are any chances of winning any sort of war then those people are ill informed and would stay like this. Until American and allied forces would openly admit that we are just bluffing people about any success.

And if someone here thinks that Afghanistan is in better situation than Iraq then they have to think again. I can not provide any links to prove this but in today�s political world not every thing is provable on media. Yes you can get as much propaganda as possible but ground realities are always different. In Afghanistan Taliban are becoming our heroes very soon again. And you would see that. Only then they might not be called Taliban as they do not have any uniform so you can give them any name.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

So wishing our troops to be pulled from an unwinnable war is unpatriotic. And keeping them in danger and at risk of death, for nothing, is presumably then, patriotic.

Once again an overreactive and incorrect understanding response from you Gromit.

I was not in the least suggesting our troops should be fighting an un-winnable war for the sake of some misguided form of patriotism.

Because of the reasons you have highlighted, they are out there fighting this un-winnable war and there is nothing they can personally do to alter this fact.

But while waiting on the whims of the politicians, what I would like to see in the meantime is for our troops to get, the full cooperation and support from their fellow surfs, instead of the insults and brickbat that are metered out, not only by some on this site but also on the streets.

[anotheoldgit]

If one can make any sense or reasoning from keyplus90's latest post, then "You are a better man than I Gungerdin".

Answers not on a post card but on this site, please.

[Gromit]

The vast majority of people in the UK fully support the British soldiers in Afghanistan. They wish them every success and do not want to see them harmed. A great many of these supporters also hold the view that the UK forces should not still be there. They are not unpatriotic, quite the reverse.

The insults and brickbats that are metered out I think you will find are aimed at the leaders and not the people dodging the bullets.

[terambulan]

If/when UK pulls out of Afganistan, India & Pakistan will war between themselves to gain control of Afganistan.

[Gromit]

terambulan

There are signs that the US has now tired of Pakistan and that it has switched its weight behind India as its strategic partner in the region.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page= 2008%5C10%5C06%5Cstory_6-10-2008_pg3_1

[terambulan]

Gromit....& Y not? India has BGates' IT business. Pakistan had UK support thru Musheriff.....now all awry?