We Will Remember Them. Poppy Day.

[Lonnie]

Hi nall, as you no doubt know, rememberance Sunday is on the 9th of November, so i'd like you all to take a good look at this site, and if you see a Poppy Seller between the 1st and 8th November, it would be a nice gesture to by one, as the money goes towards ex servicemen/women,and to support their familes, buy various things like mobile scooters, help finanially with various medical operations etc.

http://www.wewillrememberthem.co.uk/

I appreciate that there are some that don't buy on principle, thats fine.

[naomi24]

Oops. Didn't see your post here, Lonnie. I've just answered you in B&S. Of course - and I hope everyone will buy a poppy.

[EngTeach]

My Gram always made those Poppies a big deal and seeing the veterans selling them always takes me back. I always buy a few. There is still one old codger in my town who walks around selling them. I swear it is the same guy from when I was a kid.

[Lonnie]

Hi naomi, yes, knowing that some people only visit certain sites, I put in in this on, B&S and Military, maybe I should have put it on CB as well, thats seems to be the most visited,

Hi Eng Teach, Your Gram was right, it is a big deal, and good for you for buying them.

[naomi24]

I don't usually go into B&S much, Lonnie, but I spotted your post in the grey box at the side.

[jake-the-peg]

Nice to see that you remember that we don't all buy into the poppy day story.

Im afraid I and people like me will keep popping our heads up to remind you that this is not a ceremony that unites the whole country.

Whilst there are some veterans of WWII still alive I'll give them a bit of change but I won't wear Haig's poppy.

[naomi24]

I'm not worried whether it unites the whole country, or not, Jake. This isn't about politics, or the rights and wrongs of war, or the rights and wrongs of war leaders - it's about remembering the fallen. I appreciate the fact that people - young people - have given their lives for this country, the very least I can do to acknowledge their sacrifice is to buy, and wear, a poppy.

[jake-the-peg]

That's my point.

The vast majority did not die defending this country but in persuing foreign adventures.

That's why they always hark back to WWII - a war that actually was defensive. Even though there are so few left who actually fought in it.

Even now we are building aircraft carriers to take our forces all over the world not to defend our country but to defend our interests.

I will not dignify that

[New Judge]

What, exactly, have you got against "Haig's poppy", jake?

Whilst you may or may not agree with everything the armed forces undertake in your name (and I certainly do not agree with all they are ordered to do, particularly at the moment) they do things that most of us would not care to do.

Yes, they do so voluntarily, but what is your objection to a fund designed to provide for them should they be unfortunate enough to be injured?

[jake-the-peg]

NJ

This country has a real nasty habit of sending it's armed forces overseas to fight in wars that are not in the least defensive.

Suez is the classic example but there are many others.

Most of the service men join the armed forces knowing they can be asked to go abroad and kill people just on the say-so of a bunch of politicians.

They abdicate their moral responsibility to judge whether something is worth fighting for.

Then once a year everybody comes together in solem silence and the politicians who built the aircraft carriers and sent the soldiers all over the world to kill people in our name hold a service to remember the people who they sent abroad to maim and kill.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a pacifict - but our forces should be targeted at defending Britain - not in escapades on the other side of the world.

You don't need aircraft carriers for that

[Doc.Spock.1]

Got to agree with some of that Jake.


However, having seen the thousands and tghousands of graves in Normandy, I shall buy a poppy, not necessarily wear it.

[Lonnie]

jake,
I appreciate your view, and yes, I did remember from last year, but I think it really is a time for rememberance,

These people laid down their lives for the freedoms we have today, voluntarily or involuntary, I believe we should remember them.

I'm one of the lucky ones, my Grandfather, who came to this country in 1912 to escape persecutions, enlisted and fought the first war for the country that gave him succour. My father fought in Africa and Europe, both escaped without injury, but there are millions (civilians also) who didn't.

I believe I owe this country, or at least, the people in it.

For me, as with countless others, its a personal thing.

[jake-the-peg]

My great uncle had a much less fortunate war - as I think you'll recall I've said

"Called up - cannon fodder - name mis-spelt on war memorial"

"Next please"

Haig's poppy? no thanks

It is a personal thing - But with all the media going on about "the whole nation coming together"
I feel I have to speak up and say No - not everybody buys into this.

However unpopular it may be I'll be standing with Wifred Owen

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

[New Judge]

I fully agree with your sentiments concerning politicians, jake (I�m sure you�re well aware of my opinions of most of them, whatever their inclination!). However, I fear you are merging the malfeasance of some of our �leaders� with the intentions of the members of the armed forces.

People join the forces for all sorts of reasons. Once in, they cannot pick and choose what duties they undertake according to their morals. I think to say that having chosen to join they have automatically abrogated their moral responsibilities is a little harsh. They join on the understanding that they will do as they are told.

The only alternative I can see is to have no armed forces, and that is quite a separate argument. Like it or not we do have armed forces and we are fortunate that there are people prepared to do dirty work on our behalf. The conflicts they are sent to are not of their choosing and if those conflicts seem morally wrong the blame lies with the politicians who chose to send them, not with the forces personnel.

Whatever reason people have died or been maimed for, they have done so under the orders of politicians. Those same politicians, having imperilled them, do not provide sufficient support to them should it be needed. To decry a fund which aims to help all of them (including those who have suffered in �worthy� conflicts) is, in my view, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[KRUSTYMAN]

I always buy a poppy, mainly in memory of the thousands of youngsters who rushed to sign up in the first world war with visions of great fields of glory only to find themselves drowning in mud and being executed for mental illness etc. Whatever your views on war or peace the lives of the young, uneducated and naive are worth the rememberance even if the stupid generals and politicians are not ! Having said that I had a hell of a job finding a seller or a shop that had the charity boxes this year.

[helpmetoo]

heres a choice,

text poppy to 80848

and get a download of a poppy pic for �1.50

or buy some more copies of the guardian with the money

[R1Geezer]

whatever you think of the politics surrounding the past jake, the fact remains men died, lions led by sheep usually, but they died. That's what it's all about. Not some twee sound bites that lefties like you and others cling on to. The liberal left would lift a finger to help this county and when they where saved by the people they hate they give no thanks, but try and take their cosy little liberal perfect lives away and they make gengis Kahn lood like a pacifist.

[zzxxee]

i will wear my poppy with pride its not all about ist and 2nd ww veterans its the gulf its iraq iran and afganistan service people we should honour to alve or dead

[puddicat]

I am glad there is a turnaround in peoples thoughts about the poppy and its meaning, what worries me its becoming very american in its message, omg dont become all patriotic like them lol!!

[123everton]

The poppy is for the dead and the dying of all wars and all future wars, on a personal level I wear mine until the 11th or Rememberance Sunday whichever comes last.

[naomi24]

Just for the record, I went shopping in a major town today. I saw no poppy sellers - and very few people were wearing poppies. I find that very sad.