Jean Charles de Menezes

[LewPaper]

I think the time's now come to draw a line under this very sad and unfortunate incident. It was a mistake, a terrible, ghastly one granted, but still a mistake; something we all do every day, though thankfully without these dire consequences.

Certainly if it's found necessary further enquiries should be conducted, but out of the public gaze. To do so only gives rise to glib sound-bites in interviews, general face-saving and excuses instead of reasons and does nothing to assist any inquiry to come to a genuinely honest and unbiased result.

Why not conduct it like an autopsy? Let those empowered to do so do the job and publish the result.

[andy-hughes]

I don't think an autopsy would provide closure.

The issue does not concern whether Mr Menezes was shot in the head - that is not at issue.

The enquiry revolves around the facts about whether or not he was given warning first, and in fact how a 'terrorist' was alowed to gain access to a public transport network.

The jury verdeict of an 'open verdict' has certainly not given satisfaction to his family - and the whole affair - a mistak as you so rightly say - has not cevered anyone involved in glory.

[LewPaper]

Thanks for your contribution Andy and I think the word 'autopsy' I used was ill-conceived.

I didn't mean it in the medical sense, but in the context of an investigation out of the view of the public.

[puddicat]

Having strange thoughts on this one,how much money has been spend debating and getting answers thousands,if i was in the situation of the police at the time that there was so much worry over terroist activity when this happened,he would have lived also if he wasnt in this country, shouldnt have been hate to think that his mother and family are in for the money,if this had happened in brazil do you think they would have done the same sorry dont think so!!!

[jno]

would your question be the same if it was your son?

[sara3]

I think jno is right. it's an outrage and there are no acceptable "excuses" for it.

[LewPaper]

I think the finger-pointing should now end, whose ever son he was, and, if I may say so, that's a particularly stupid remark - everyone's someone's son or daughter.

That's not to say any investigation shouldn't continue.

[123everton]

If he'd (we'd) been shot by Brazilian Police then it'd be met by a shrug, a huge pack of lies and a coverup.
Police in Brazil used to kill the street kids because they were bad for tourism, they've just gone on strike and riotted in Rio a different section of the Police had to intervene.
It was a tragic accident, it could indeed happen again, but ask yourself how hard must it be to make a decision in seconds that will kill one man or could kill scores?
Every armed Police man has to face making these decisions daily, do you want to disarm the Police?

[sara3]

if our armed police think it's okay to shoot without even giving a warning, I think those individuals should not be armed.

[madmaggot]

Take yourself back to that time. If it had turned out that he HAD got a bomb on him those police would have been heros. They did what they did due to all the circumstances coming together at one time and are carrying the can for their superiors (as usual). As Lew says 'It was a mistake, a terrible, ghastly one granted, but still a mistake'. And yes, I do think that the Menezes family has an eye to the money (just as the majority of people here do) but that does not take anything away from the fact that here is a mother grieving the loss of her son.

[jno]

you may think my question was stupid, Lew, but I notice you haven't answered it. Would you say 'Okay, the cops screwed up completely and killed my son but, hey, it was a mistake, they're only human, so I'll draw a line under it'?

[LewPaper]

I see it's handbags-at-dawn time jno, and no, I don't usually waste time answering stupid questions but I'll make an exception, just this once.

If he were my son, like anyone else's, NOTHING would bring him back. By this constant reference to the incident his family must be going through hell everytime they switch on the telly or read a newspaper. After the three years since, they should be able to just see a light at the end of their long tunnel of suffering, but no, they're still caught in the media limelight.

Whoever was to blame, if indeed anyone was, is a seperate issue, and as I said in my original post, this can be continued in privacy with solicitors acting on behalf of the family to ensure everything was above board.

They've never been able to grieve in private so the pain must be as bad now as it was then. By taking it out of the public gaze they could perhaps start to rebuild their lives.

And would I feel the same if he were my son? TOO RIGHT I WOULD.

There. Wasn't difficult was it?

[Gourmander]

It was a mistake, a terrible, ghastly one granted, but still a mistake; something we all do every day,

Really, so we all take our guns on the tube and empty the contents into the head of some foreigner!!

[LewPaper]

Well, that's certainly cut me down to size. I should've realised I was on a hiding to nothing with intellectual GIANTS like you out there only too ready to cut me down.

Are you for REAL? What a ****head! Your contribution was really worth adding and I thank you for it.

[jno]

well, there we differ, LewPaper: I would want to keep seeking justice against the killers of my son. I suspect the real thing keeping de Menezes' family from moving on isn't the fact that the media keep covering his death but that the justice system keeps insisting nobody should even have their knockles rapped over it. In this case it seems the jury was told they couldn't bring in a verdict of unlawful killing, which rather seems to prejudge matters. So personally, I would not now be thinking 'Oh fine, the state has told the jury they're not to blame anyone, so I can now rebuild my life.' On the contrary, I'd be angrier than ever.

[LewPaper]

. . . and that contradicts what I've said does it?

Are you sure you're replying to the correct posting? I'm on about the feelings and the treatment of the family and you're spouting on about justice. I can't disagree with you, it's just that it wasn't what I said.

[jake-the-peg]

I think there's a very very important question that is still unanswered.

Why were there so many false stories so soon after and what was the police's role in putting them about.

Padded coats, Jumping barriers and the like.

We still get people on here that believe this rot despite the video footage now available.

If the Police make mistakes like this (and it's inevitable that they will given the circumstances) it's absolutely essential that they are open and honest about it.

We cannot have the police trying to cover things like this up.

Even in court it was clear that the jury did not believe the Police's version of events.

The Police officers were allowed to compare notes when writing up what happened - I think that has now been stopped but if someone tried to plant misleading stories with the press to justify what happened it needs sorting.

If we can't trust the Police we are sunk.

[LewPaper]

Dead right, well said jake. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Gourmander]

Lewpaper, I'm for REAL, are you? You've attacked jno twice on this thread, for daring to have a different point of view. You agree with jake, even though he has pointed out all the inconsistencies in police evidence, you seem quite happy with that. You think its went on long enough, so let's put an end to it. The verdict can now be sent gift wrapped to the Menezes family for Christmas, I'm sure they'll be pleased.

[legendis.god]

All this has done has shown how incompetant the police are.
And also in a case like this , how quickly all concerned from low ranks to up high , will lie to cover their own arses.
If ian blair was still in his job hed have to have been fired.
Anyone else think its convenient he is already awya and counting his cash?

THIS WAS A CASE OF INCOMPETENCE AND ANYONE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN CHARLES DE MENEZES DEATH SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED EITHER AUTHORITY OVER OFFICERS OR PERMISSSION TO CARRY OR USE A FIREARM