Trial by media / State of Fear

[Oneeyedvic]

After the arrests of 12 Pakistani men 2 weeks ago for alleged terrorist activities, they have ALL been released without charge.

At the time, several people on here assumed that they must be guilty and even asked for legislation to be passed to stop Pakistani nationals travelling between here and Pakistan.

Are we becoming increasingly guilty of believing the press and are they in turn being manipulated so that we are living is a state of fear?

Incidentally, I am sure that there will be several people who still think that they are guilty (no smoke without fire after all) - and in seems even the Prime Minister seems to imply their guilt as they are seeking to deport these people despite the fact that they have not committed any crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8011341.stm

[MrsT]

So what actual mosque do you preach in? They are Muslim and therefore terrorist sympathisers at best.

[jno]

it seems the authorities are able to do pretty much what they want in their imaginary 'war against terror'. They then spread disinformation to their chums in the press, who spread it to AB members, who lap it up like champagne. Only a couple of weeks ago, student visas were a loophole allowing terrorists into the country. What do you know, it seems they actually allow innocent people in the country. But innocence is no longer a defence, apparently.

These guys have done rather less harm to the country than your average banker. But who gets arrested?

[Banali]

Interesting. I said at the time they were arrested that I would be really surprised if they ended up in court. How many times have we seen those raids and how many convictions?

Probably the most they are guilty of is not abiding by the terms of their visas, hence the deportation.

MrsT what an ignorant comment. There are extremists in every religion.

[Joy11]

they are to be deported tho' oneeyedvic, and they are taking legal action against this, why do you think they are being deported?

[Joy11]

sorry Banali, just read your post, they still should never attempted to enter the UK with invalid papers, this immediatley puts them under surveilance., and rightly so.

[craft1948]

I don't think the security forces carry out raids without having good reason, and personally I would rather they were proactive rather than reactive regarding the threat of terrorism. They may have very good reasons for arresting the people they did but have been advised by the CPS that convictions would be difficult.

[Joy11]

that's a good point craft, I feel safer with the security forces being proactive rather than pander to the PC brigade

[Oneeyedvic]

they are to be deported tho' oneeyedvic, and they are taking legal action against this, why do you think they are being deported?

Because they are currently an embarrassment to the people who arrested them.

Remember that they can be held under anti terror for up to 28 days without any problems - they were released after 14 days with NO charges.

[Oneeyedvic]

What has this got to do with political correctness.

My issue with this whole affair is that the media have whipped people into a frenzy.

There is no need for this to be played out in the public domain until after a conviction has taken place.

Lets face it, they would hardly have had a fair and impartial jury if it did come to trial would they?

[Joy11]

I accept what you are saying on PC, but the UK is a bit jittery at present and maybe reaction isn't always correct, but what's the alternative, wait until something happens
Hi Mani, my fellow Geordie...waves<3

[craft1948]

Mani what planet are you on? The police don't wake up one morning and think...okay let's go pick up a bunch of Pakistani's today...that will make us look good........................ This operation had to be brought forward due to the chief d!ckheads security lapse and who knows what the outcome might have been if the arrests had been made to the original time-scales. One would assume that if they are being threatened with deportation then valid reasons for this action will be given.

[Julnar]

I see these people arrived on student visas, but were also working part time. I don't know if that is legal, but if it isn't I bet that's how the authorities are able to deport them. I for one am growing disillusioned with this type of policing and mischief making by the media. Many innocent Muslims must feel victimised merely for being religious. It doesn't bode well for community relations and only feeds the disillusionment of an entire community, the vast majority of whom are no more guilty of any crime than you or I.

[Banali]

My thoughts are:

1. Not all Muslims/Pakistanis/Asians/Arabs are in favour of terrorism, as I said before there are extremists in every religion. We should be careful not to sterotype.

2. Just because they were arrested does not make them guilty of anything. They may be guilty of nothing more that a visa infraction. i.e. here on a student visa, but not attending college/uni. I don't think that they arrived with invalid papers. If they had done their only right of appeal would be to claim asylum, which they haven't done.

3. UK immigration is not subject to law in the same sense as every other area of Government. Decisions are made "at the discretion of the Home Secretary". There are guidelines in place as to whether a person is allowed to remain, but there are no hard and fast laws. Interpretation can be a minefield.

4. Appealing a deportation decision allows the deportee to remain in this country until his appeal has been heard. He will be asked to surrender his passport in the meantime and cannot travel outside the UK. If he does need to leave, his appeal is automatically abandoned.

I agree that we want to see the security forces being proactive I just think we should be careful to keep an open mind and not allow the media lead us where they want to.

[cassa333]

Just because someone has been released without charge doesn't mean they are innocent of the accusation.

It just means they don't have enough evidence for a conviction.

If these men had been above board, worked (or not as the case may be) according to their visa (oops sorry they had dodgy visas didn't they?) or studied as they should have then I can't see how they are innocent of all the allegations?

In some respects we do have a bit of a numpty police force but I don't believe that they would have gone to so much trouble with so much publicity if there wasn't something suspicious going on.

[jake-the-peg]

You can't assume if they're arrested they must be guilty.

Most likely the security services work a "better safe than sorry" approach and arrest everybody associated with the people they're interested in.

Nothing wrong with that but there's a good chance that in that lot there are people who just happened to live next door or talk to them at a mosque or such like.

You might think so what - but we expect evidence when British Plane spotters are accused of spying, the same principal applies

[craft1948]

Mani....if you're lucky the Newcastle side will be arrested for crimes against football......