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Unruly Yobs?
According to the front page of the Times, the growth in anti social yobs making peoples lives a misery is all down to Noo Labour, its it? How can the authorties deal with the problem? How can we get the little sh1t bags to behave? BGB's available for this question of course!
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There is a growth in anti-social behavour amongst everyone, not just youngsters.
However, it does seem to me that we have reached the stage were being drunk or drugged on the streets is quite acceptable. Pubs and clubs and shops offer cheap booze, and encourage over drinking. Youngsters think that a night out HAS to include them getting smashed, paralitic, etc and that you cant enjoy yourself unless you drink till you fall over.
I remember a time when you could get arrested for being "drunk and disorderly" on the streets but nowadays you can get away with anything on the streets and are not likely to get arrested.
Now I am in my late 50s I must admit to being scared to go out on the streets at certain times as you may meet a drunken or drugged group of people who may abuse you, attack you, mug you or whatever.
The only way is "zero tolerance" for unruly behavour, but which political party is going to suggest it, and pay for the extra police on the street.
However, it does seem to me that we have reached the stage were being drunk or drugged on the streets is quite acceptable. Pubs and clubs and shops offer cheap booze, and encourage over drinking. Youngsters think that a night out HAS to include them getting smashed, paralitic, etc and that you cant enjoy yourself unless you drink till you fall over.
I remember a time when you could get arrested for being "drunk and disorderly" on the streets but nowadays you can get away with anything on the streets and are not likely to get arrested.
Now I am in my late 50s I must admit to being scared to go out on the streets at certain times as you may meet a drunken or drugged group of people who may abuse you, attack you, mug you or whatever.
The only way is "zero tolerance" for unruly behavour, but which political party is going to suggest it, and pay for the extra police on the street.
I have travelled around the world a lot on business and have been approached by people in the street who were drugged or drunk which is always rather frightening. I rememebr one guy in Amsterdam who was looking for money for drugs and he nearly mugged me.
But I went to Saudi Arabia a few years ago on business (not easy to get into Saudi Arabia at the best of times).
This is a VERY strict Muslim country and they come down hard on both drink and drugs. Impossible to buy alcoholic drink in ANY public shop or club or restaurant.
I have to say that this made going out for a walk a night a pleasure, knowing you were not going to get attacked or assulted by some drunken moron or group of people.
There are other issues in the country, so it was not all perfect, but certainly a tough stance on drink and drugs has made the country a safer one to stay in.
I think we have allowed people in this country to "do whatever they want" and we are now paying the price for it.
But I went to Saudi Arabia a few years ago on business (not easy to get into Saudi Arabia at the best of times).
This is a VERY strict Muslim country and they come down hard on both drink and drugs. Impossible to buy alcoholic drink in ANY public shop or club or restaurant.
I have to say that this made going out for a walk a night a pleasure, knowing you were not going to get attacked or assulted by some drunken moron or group of people.
There are other issues in the country, so it was not all perfect, but certainly a tough stance on drink and drugs has made the country a safer one to stay in.
I think we have allowed people in this country to "do whatever they want" and we are now paying the price for it.
Yes and those people would point to crime statistics that show that this is the case rather than relying on media reports sensationalising certain events.
Where are the Gangs of football Hooligans I grew up watching on the NNews every Saturday?
Have you forgotton the riots and looting in places like Brixton and Toxteth?
Are we to believe street crime is some how new?
The very word "Yob" came into the dictionary in the 30s although it was first victorian.
VHG talks about being scared - this is the point - to make people frightened to give them an unrealistic fear of crime out of proportion with the risk that they actually face.
Where are the Gangs of football Hooligans I grew up watching on the NNews every Saturday?
Have you forgotton the riots and looting in places like Brixton and Toxteth?
Are we to believe street crime is some how new?
The very word "Yob" came into the dictionary in the 30s although it was first victorian.
VHG talks about being scared - this is the point - to make people frightened to give them an unrealistic fear of crime out of proportion with the risk that they actually face.
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Just to back that up with some real facts.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb0206.pdf
If you are an older man in your mid 60s to mid 70s your risk of being a victim of violent crime is only 0.4% compared to nearly 15% of men 16-24%
The violence that we see is largely young men on young men, often drink related
Yet this is reported in a way that clearly puts unrealistic fear into older people.
Incidently almost half the victims thought their assailant was drunk -
So Saudi and the US both have very heavy sentencing but Saudi has a low crime rate and the US a high one and Alcohol is banned in Saudi but available in the US.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that easy availability of alcohol is a bigger factor in violence than the supposed deterrant effect of strict sentences.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb0206.pdf
If you are an older man in your mid 60s to mid 70s your risk of being a victim of violent crime is only 0.4% compared to nearly 15% of men 16-24%
The violence that we see is largely young men on young men, often drink related
Yet this is reported in a way that clearly puts unrealistic fear into older people.
Incidently almost half the victims thought their assailant was drunk -
So Saudi and the US both have very heavy sentencing but Saudi has a low crime rate and the US a high one and Alcohol is banned in Saudi but available in the US.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that easy availability of alcohol is a bigger factor in violence than the supposed deterrant effect of strict sentences.
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When the idea of liberalising the licensing laws was first mooted some Labour Luvvy said it wasn't right that when he left the opera of an evening he couldn't get a glass of wine, as he might do on the continent.
That glass of wine has cost us all dearly. We're now awash in a sea of cheap booze.
There needs to be stricter controls on the sale of alcohol, it should be a lot dearer, and a conviction for public drunkenness should carry a heavy fine.
The drink industry should be told that their opinions are about as valid as any other drug pushers.
That glass of wine has cost us all dearly. We're now awash in a sea of cheap booze.
There needs to be stricter controls on the sale of alcohol, it should be a lot dearer, and a conviction for public drunkenness should carry a heavy fine.
The drink industry should be told that their opinions are about as valid as any other drug pushers.
I wonder what age these posters are that say things were no different years ago.
Well as you know I am of advanced years and it is no imagination on my part when I say things were much better years ago.
One could walk in the blackout and never get mugged.
One could go out dancing until the early hours, walk your partner back to her house, which could be many miles, then after saying your goodnights walk back to one's home. On the way one would meet many groups of young men who perhaps were walking in the opposite direction, no confrontations then only the words "Goodnight Mate".
One mentioned Mods, Rockers and Teddy Boys but their bark was generally worse than their bite. Yes some carried flick knives even cut throat razors, although a certain amount of vandalism was attributed to the use of these weapons, hardly any deaths resulted, why I wonder could it be that the death sentence for murder was still in force?
I think the key words for the difference to today are:
Discipline, self respect, police on the streets, respect for authority, bringing shame on your parents and family.
It seems funny when anyone suggests National Service, Police on the streets, Borstal etc, the cry goes out how can we afford it, they managed years ago, could it be we now have our priorities wrong.
And then regarding that word Discipline, out will go the cry child cruelty, Human Rights and others that all go to prevent little Johnny from knowing what's right from what's wrong.
Well as you know I am of advanced years and it is no imagination on my part when I say things were much better years ago.
One could walk in the blackout and never get mugged.
One could go out dancing until the early hours, walk your partner back to her house, which could be many miles, then after saying your goodnights walk back to one's home. On the way one would meet many groups of young men who perhaps were walking in the opposite direction, no confrontations then only the words "Goodnight Mate".
One mentioned Mods, Rockers and Teddy Boys but their bark was generally worse than their bite. Yes some carried flick knives even cut throat razors, although a certain amount of vandalism was attributed to the use of these weapons, hardly any deaths resulted, why I wonder could it be that the death sentence for murder was still in force?
I think the key words for the difference to today are:
Discipline, self respect, police on the streets, respect for authority, bringing shame on your parents and family.
It seems funny when anyone suggests National Service, Police on the streets, Borstal etc, the cry goes out how can we afford it, they managed years ago, could it be we now have our priorities wrong.
And then regarding that word Discipline, out will go the cry child cruelty, Human Rights and others that all go to prevent little Johnny from knowing what's right from what's wrong.
>Remember the teddy boys, mods & rockers, bank holiday punch ups from the end of the war upwards
Groups such as the Mods and Rockers (and football hooligans) tended to only pick on each other. There would be families on the seafront or at the footie, but they would be ignored by the mods and rockers or football hooligans as not worth bothering with.
Nowadays anyone is fair game to a gang of youngsters or a couple of criminals. They dont care if it is a 15 years old boy, or an 80 year old woman in a wheelchair. If they have anything worth nicking they nick it.
I think that is the biggest change. I cant believe the Krays would condone beating up an old lady, they tended to attack their own.
Groups such as the Mods and Rockers (and football hooligans) tended to only pick on each other. There would be families on the seafront or at the footie, but they would be ignored by the mods and rockers or football hooligans as not worth bothering with.
Nowadays anyone is fair game to a gang of youngsters or a couple of criminals. They dont care if it is a 15 years old boy, or an 80 year old woman in a wheelchair. If they have anything worth nicking they nick it.
I think that is the biggest change. I cant believe the Krays would condone beating up an old lady, they tended to attack their own.
Oh dear, these forums seem to be filled with people who are all to happy to believe whatever their daily newspapers say. Jake is the only person who's taken the time to post some facts up and these show a definite fall in crime rates over the last 10 years. Obviously these results have to be extrapolated but so far it is the only evidence anyone has managed to provide!
As has been mentioned already by some i see the main problem is alcohol. It has become so readily available for such a low price it isn't suprising people are starting drinking at a younger age. 100% of the violent behavioour i have been subjected to or whitnessed has been alcohol fuelled. This isn't a problem with lack of disicpline or prison senteces being too short (though i do believe many criminals are given laughably short sentences). When one is drunk the repercutions of their actions are not at the for front of their mind. The answer to me is simply educating young people on the dangers of drinking and drunken behaviour.
Unless of course you believe us evil teenagers are all hell bent on mindless desturction and there's no solution apart from national service.
As has been mentioned already by some i see the main problem is alcohol. It has become so readily available for such a low price it isn't suprising people are starting drinking at a younger age. 100% of the violent behavioour i have been subjected to or whitnessed has been alcohol fuelled. This isn't a problem with lack of disicpline or prison senteces being too short (though i do believe many criminals are given laughably short sentences). When one is drunk the repercutions of their actions are not at the for front of their mind. The answer to me is simply educating young people on the dangers of drinking and drunken behaviour.
Unless of course you believe us evil teenagers are all hell bent on mindless desturction and there's no solution apart from national service.
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Steve.5
Well you tried to break my argument up, nothing wrong with that, that is what debate is all about.
But please get your facts straight before you do.
///// "One could walk in the blackout and never get mugged.Did one have anything worth being mugged for?"/////
Yes people still carried sums of money in their wallets, people still had wrist watches and pocket watches, some which were gold as was the fashion in those days.
////// "One could go out dancing until the early hours, Britain closed at 10pm "Goodnight Mate"."////////
Dance Halls generally stayed open until Midnight, sometimes until 1am, the term goodnight was used instead of good morning, since one had not been to bed at that stage.
Didn`t stop Hindley & Co
Of course it didn't stop murder completely, in fact The Abolition of the Death Penalty Act came into force in 1965, four years before they were convicted.
Why you chose to state that "The Thatcher legacy is still thriving eh", or that "the licencing (licensing) laws were liberated before Blair & co came on the scene", only you know
Well you tried to break my argument up, nothing wrong with that, that is what debate is all about.
But please get your facts straight before you do.
///// "One could walk in the blackout and never get mugged.Did one have anything worth being mugged for?"/////
Yes people still carried sums of money in their wallets, people still had wrist watches and pocket watches, some which were gold as was the fashion in those days.
////// "One could go out dancing until the early hours, Britain closed at 10pm "Goodnight Mate"."////////
Dance Halls generally stayed open until Midnight, sometimes until 1am, the term goodnight was used instead of good morning, since one had not been to bed at that stage.
Didn`t stop Hindley & Co
Of course it didn't stop murder completely, in fact The Abolition of the Death Penalty Act came into force in 1965, four years before they were convicted.
Why you chose to state that "The Thatcher legacy is still thriving eh", or that "the licencing (licensing) laws were liberated before Blair & co came on the scene", only you know
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