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Is this a good David and Goliath story?
48 Answers
Three years ago I noticed that my local pharmacy (then Alliance) was selling magnetic bracelets. I wrote to the manager, pointing out that I would expect a shop up the road called Beyond The Senses to sell such things since they also peddle magic crystals, tarot cards, psychic sessions and the like, but such quackery was hardly the thing for a responsible pharmacy. I received no reply.
When Boots took over Alliance I started again with their big chief of pharmceuticals at their Nottingham HQ. He never deigned to answer me himself but passed me to a succession of staff members who, over a year or more, tried in turn to fob me off. I contacted The British Pharmaceutical Association who told me their retailing rules and the MHRA to ask whether the ludicrous medical claims made by the manufacturers of these bracelets were in breach of the law. After a long wait they said that the result of their investigation had, by EU edict, to remain confidential!
I was about to reply to that nonsense when…
…out of the blue came a letter from Boots saying that in view of the manufacturer’s claims they were withdrawing the bracelets from sale once present stocks had expired. So I had won!
To those tempted to tell me to get a life and get out more, please don’t bother. And to the inevitable question as to whether I am now going to tackle homeopathy and the like, I say – only if my doctor’s surgery or my local chemist starts to promote such charlatanism. It is one thing for the quacks themselves to con the gullible, quite another for the medical and pharmaceutical professions to do so.
I now sit back and await your plaudits, your congratulations, your gasps of admiration, your offers to have my baby, and so on. But please don’t embarrass me by overdoing the hero-worship. I’m a shy person really.
When Boots took over Alliance I started again with their big chief of pharmceuticals at their Nottingham HQ. He never deigned to answer me himself but passed me to a succession of staff members who, over a year or more, tried in turn to fob me off. I contacted The British Pharmaceutical Association who told me their retailing rules and the MHRA to ask whether the ludicrous medical claims made by the manufacturers of these bracelets were in breach of the law. After a long wait they said that the result of their investigation had, by EU edict, to remain confidential!
I was about to reply to that nonsense when…
…out of the blue came a letter from Boots saying that in view of the manufacturer’s claims they were withdrawing the bracelets from sale once present stocks had expired. So I had won!
To those tempted to tell me to get a life and get out more, please don’t bother. And to the inevitable question as to whether I am now going to tackle homeopathy and the like, I say – only if my doctor’s surgery or my local chemist starts to promote such charlatanism. It is one thing for the quacks themselves to con the gullible, quite another for the medical and pharmaceutical professions to do so.
I now sit back and await your plaudits, your congratulations, your gasps of admiration, your offers to have my baby, and so on. But please don’t embarrass me by overdoing the hero-worship. I’m a shy person really.
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Sqad- To get back to one of your earlier comments - yes, that encapsulates my problems with selling homeopathic remedies in a pharmacy.
Dothawkes - Your objections with Chakkas actions appear to be that it puts whole swathes of magnetic bracelet manufacturers out of work. I would be astonished if there were any significant numbers involved in manufacturing within the UK - but regardless, let them peddle their bracelets with a dubious, placebo only therapeutic value through outlets other than a pharmacy - or better still, take up the manufacture of cosmetic bracelets!
Keyplus - You may think the copper bracelet has worked,but I have my doubts. Memory ,correlation and causation are all very tricky things,easy to confuse and conflate with each other and one anecdotal story does not constitute good evidence.Of course, you are well used to making faith based decisions in the absence of evidence ;)
Mr. Veritas - Whilst I respect your experience, you council a policy of despair - A fool and his money is soon parted, you say - Lots of other products out there doing the same thing, you say - this kind of thing has always happened you say - So because of these reasons, we should just stop fighting, stop pointing out the absurdity of false claims, just ignore and accept? Thats not a position I would be comfortable with.
The general public are entitled to be protected from products that present themselves as having therapeutic value without having any objective, controlled clinical data, or indeed a clinically plausible biological mechanism to back up their claims. By all means sell them as purely cosmetic items or through ebay or somewhere like that - just not from pharmacies, which are supposedly the trusted high street medical / scientific outlet.
Dothawkes - Your objections with Chakkas actions appear to be that it puts whole swathes of magnetic bracelet manufacturers out of work. I would be astonished if there were any significant numbers involved in manufacturing within the UK - but regardless, let them peddle their bracelets with a dubious, placebo only therapeutic value through outlets other than a pharmacy - or better still, take up the manufacture of cosmetic bracelets!
Keyplus - You may think the copper bracelet has worked,but I have my doubts. Memory ,correlation and causation are all very tricky things,easy to confuse and conflate with each other and one anecdotal story does not constitute good evidence.Of course, you are well used to making faith based decisions in the absence of evidence ;)
Mr. Veritas - Whilst I respect your experience, you council a policy of despair - A fool and his money is soon parted, you say - Lots of other products out there doing the same thing, you say - this kind of thing has always happened you say - So because of these reasons, we should just stop fighting, stop pointing out the absurdity of false claims, just ignore and accept? Thats not a position I would be comfortable with.
The general public are entitled to be protected from products that present themselves as having therapeutic value without having any objective, controlled clinical data, or indeed a clinically plausible biological mechanism to back up their claims. By all means sell them as purely cosmetic items or through ebay or somewhere like that - just not from pharmacies, which are supposedly the trusted high street medical / scientific outlet.
if boots stop selling them i might just stock up and flog them over the internet. as said previously, a fool and his money are easily parted so if there is a demand i am happy supply. i don't think they cause particular harm, just unwarranted hope which can itself be beneficial.
if boots removed the medical health claims from the bracelet, can they keep seeling them ? i am not really convinced you have won though chakka, how will you ever know if their stocks have expired or they are just continuously topping them up ? i think youve been hoodwinked.
if boots removed the medical health claims from the bracelet, can they keep seeling them ? i am not really convinced you have won though chakka, how will you ever know if their stocks have expired or they are just continuously topping them up ? i think youve been hoodwinked.
Lazy – I don’t think that I had to make faith based decision without evidence as my shoulder is still well connected to my body and passes pain signals to my own brain. And I believe that is enough evidence as far as I am concerned. However if you are making an assumption of no evidence as my shoulder was not attached to your body but still you seem to be more sure than I am, then I believe it is known as pathetic thinking.
Keyplus - You really, really dont get science do you? You have no evidence that the bracelet removed/reduced the pain. Any one of a number of things could have changed the sensation, but you have elected to attribute the improvement to a "magnetic" bracelet - despite there being no biologically plausible mechanism by which such a thing could happen. Thats a faith based decision, one that you are well used to making, since faith colours your whole existence. Thats not pathetic thinking,as you assert - its a statement of fact.
Well, that was interesting. Not, though, very much of that adulation and back-patting that I expected – with the exception, of course, of the post from intelligent, perceptive, wise, discerning and shrewd naomi. The general tetchiness I put down to jealousy at my fine achievement in taking on a huge corporation single-handed and winning.
Still I am hurt. Very hurt. But I shan’t sulk. That’s not me.
A little more seriously…
With the honourable exceptions of LazyGun and everton, you all seem to miss my point. I did not suggest that these gadgets be banned. Let them be sold in magic and occult shops, newsagents, electrical shops, the internet, wherever. And if people want to spend good money on them for the comfort they get from the placebo effect then good luck to them.
But they have no place in pharmacies where we are entitled to expect sound medical advice and products. Why shouldn’t the pharmacist who peddles this quackery sell me snake oil next time? This is what Boots eventually recognised.
A few details:
redcrx… my local shop was not involved during the last year. That last letter, like the previous dozen or so, came from Head Office. It was signed by their Professional Support Pharmacist.
Coobeastie…as a matter of fact I am a bundle of laughs.
dot… do you think all employment to be good no matter how dishonest the product?
Mr V… I also have other important things to do and writing a letter to Boots every week or two does not interfere with them.
Ankou… I don’t think Boots would need to hoodwink me. In any case other organisations are now involved.
keyplus…anecdotal “evidence” is worthless. CONT’D…
Still I am hurt. Very hurt. But I shan’t sulk. That’s not me.
A little more seriously…
With the honourable exceptions of LazyGun and everton, you all seem to miss my point. I did not suggest that these gadgets be banned. Let them be sold in magic and occult shops, newsagents, electrical shops, the internet, wherever. And if people want to spend good money on them for the comfort they get from the placebo effect then good luck to them.
But they have no place in pharmacies where we are entitled to expect sound medical advice and products. Why shouldn’t the pharmacist who peddles this quackery sell me snake oil next time? This is what Boots eventually recognised.
A few details:
redcrx… my local shop was not involved during the last year. That last letter, like the previous dozen or so, came from Head Office. It was signed by their Professional Support Pharmacist.
Coobeastie…as a matter of fact I am a bundle of laughs.
dot… do you think all employment to be good no matter how dishonest the product?
Mr V… I also have other important things to do and writing a letter to Boots every week or two does not interfere with them.
Ankou… I don’t think Boots would need to hoodwink me. In any case other organisations are now involved.
keyplus…anecdotal “evidence” is worthless. CONT’D…
…CONT’D
Well there we are. Since you don’t seem to appreciate my courage, my razor-sharp logic and my persistence, I will not tell you of future triumphs of mine. So if the global warming threat disappears overnight, if there is proof at last of the conjecture that all numbers greater than five can be expressed as the sum of three primes, if low-temperature nuclear fusion suddenly becomes available, you will never know that it was me Wot Done It.
So I will now close this thread, summon my huff and go off in it. Good day to you.
Well there we are. Since you don’t seem to appreciate my courage, my razor-sharp logic and my persistence, I will not tell you of future triumphs of mine. So if the global warming threat disappears overnight, if there is proof at last of the conjecture that all numbers greater than five can be expressed as the sum of three primes, if low-temperature nuclear fusion suddenly becomes available, you will never know that it was me Wot Done It.
So I will now close this thread, summon my huff and go off in it. Good day to you.
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