Alcoholics Anonymous - The Higher Power.

[Theland1]

The 12 step programme of AA consists of a recognition of a higher power, God, a universal spirit, or even the group strength of AA itself. The God as YOU understand Him, or, the God of my understanding.
Members are taught to abandon their own strength in fighting their addiction, and submit themselves to the guidance of the higher power, relying on the strength of that poer to see them through the day. For millions of people, it actually works, and drunks get dry and stay dry.
So, the question for unbelievers is, how does this work if their is no God? The poor alcoholic has no strength of his own to maintain abstinence, yet somehow he does. I have seen it and it is impressive. So without a higher power, how would you explain this miracle?

[Canary42]

You've answered your own question - the group strength.

[naomi24]

Are you kidding, Theland? I can understand AA promoting the idea of the strength of will that can be derived from group therapy because that's what they're are about, but God? Do they really promote that? I've never heard of Weightwatchers or NHS Stop Smoking groups doing the same thing - but they, without the benefit of 'miracles', are apparently very successful too.

[bensmum]

Hello Theland. I can only agree with canary and Naomi here. The power of a group of people to achieve a common goal can be quite amazing. Alcoholics are encouraged to attend as many meetings as possible which maintains the momentum. Any group of people working together like this can find the strength to achieve - as Naomi says god plays no part in Weightwatchers that I've seen

[tamborine]

Alcoholics respond with 'god led me to the pub' or 'showed be a bottle'! Defeatism, I know but that's alco's; any excuse!

If AA impressed 'family worth' more and reminded the alcoholic of the destruction their selfish imbibing caused, more might be saved.

[naomi24]

Another thought, Theland. You succeeded - you - so why undermine yourself? Why not give credit where credit is due?

[Sandy-Wroe]

The 'higher power' can be the group you're attending.
To deal with alcoholism the drinker needs to admit to himself that he has a problem. Attending meetings and following the 12 step programme has helped thousands of people.
There doesn't need to be a god in heaven for someone to stop drinking He just needs a desire to stop and the help he'll get from AA

[tamborine]

theland....I was unaware you're a recovering alco' and am sorry if my comment is harsh. My OH suffered same & died at 60 - liver damage; tho' Death Cert stated other.

When I turned to Al Anon for support living with him & his perceived 'sickness', they responded with 'divorce'. My kids are all t-total after witnessing their father's distress.....our sons are particularly hurt that their father spent more time in the pub than at home with them.

Your wife, kids see you at your worst, they clear & clean after you, they are the ONLY ones who will be with you at the end (not your drinking pals, who's only pleasure is to watch you crawl home and disrupt your family).

[Mr Veritas]

I have heard you spout a lot of rubbish,but this takes the biscuit,
It's sad when a supposed religious person can distort the wonderful ethics of the AA to their own ends!

Provide proof of this please!

[WaldoMcFroog]

You know how sometimes the answer is in the question?

This is very poor, even by your standards, Theland.

You may be interested to know that the 12 step programme is far from universally effective, which rather suggests the higher power is somewhat lacking where it counts. A Cochran review (a meta study) of a number of studies into AA discovered it was no more effective than other programmes.

So maybe it is your God, after all...

[naomi24]

Theland, reading the replies here, ought we be seriously concerned for you? Do you actually think about what you say and say it with conviction - or are you winding us up? Go on, please tell me you're winding us up. We can take a joke. Custard pies freshly baked.

[naomi24]

Actually Theland, if you think about it, the success of Group Therapy is borne out by the undoubted influence that religious institutions wield upon their assemblies.

[jake-the-peg]

I'm a recovering alcoholic too - dry 9 years now

I didn't need a higher power to maintain my own abseinance

How do you explain that?

(The answer of course is that the logic is complete tosh)

[Quinlad]

Hi Mr Veritas,

Here are the original Twelve Steps as published by Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

[mibn2cweus]

I too am an alcoholic who decided at the onset, and not a moment too soon, not to make a habit of it.

[Mr Veritas]

Thanks Quin,
I must say that I am rather shocked that an organisation that puports to help alcoholics would include God in its steps!
As someone said before,how could an aethist (like myself) become part of AA?
However,I think AA was started in the USA where God comes above everything.
You live and learn,and what I learn of AA I don't like,their steps are nothing more than religious indoctrination!
Taking advantage of the vulnerable for their own ends.
If you look at the Salvation Army Alcohol Support groiups, god and religion is never mentioned.

[rojash]

AA does as much harm as it does good. It teaches that alcoholics cannot recover and will always be alcoholics. It convinces them that if they have one drink, they will automatically slide back into addiction, and this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Theland1]

When I was at my lowest ebb and attended my first meeting, I was told by several people then, and at subsequent meetings, not to fight the addiction, but surrender myself to God as I understood Him, and allow His strength to see me through.
This is what they believed and this is what sustained their normality.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[WaldoMcFroog]

And if it works for you, then very sincerely, that's great - I have a friend it worked for very well.

But it isn't any more effective than other programmes and for the reasons that Rojash has pointed out, it's not necessarily the best way of doing thigs. If it is down to God, it's funny how he seems no more effective than programmes which he doesn't endorse.

[Davethedog]

I make no judgement as to relgion per se but my understanding is that psychologicaly people with addictive personalities need to have one dependancy replaced with another.

This is why in severe cases you get alchohol, drug and gambling addiction. Religion is the crutch psychologicaly that replaces drink if it works who would argue.

The thing is that its very easy to slip so the one drink and one day at a time philosophy are a reminder and a small goal. If you gave a large goal, stay dry for a year and your cured for instance more people would slip.

It can be self fulfilling because to break an addiction is very hard and not just a matter of saying i'm giving up.

In Scanndanavia alcholism is seen as an illness.