Can the christian (or muslim for that matter) doctrine of hell

[kryptic]

ever be justified?
I have a friend who started to attend a pentecostal church a couple of years ago. Some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is frankly alarming.
We got talking the other day about the afterlife (which I dont believe in) and he seems to think that it is perfectly justifiable that I will spend my eternity in hell because I dont believe in God. (at least not in the religious sense). I have lost a fair few loved ones over the years, all good people but not religious, and he seems to think that its justified in some way to believe that these folk are burning in a fiery lake. If it wasnt for the fact that I believe he has been brainwashed (and the fact that we have been friends a long time) I might be tempted to clock him one when he comes out with stuff like this.
Any thoughts on hell or on how to deal with this kind of indoctrination?

[ladyalex]

I don't think you can deal with it. I'd try to keep off the subject. You're never going to agree or to persuade each other the other is wrong. (Your friend is, though....)

[ladyalex]

Wrong, I mean...

[MarkRae]

I would tell him that if heaven means an eternity of being surround by people like him, then that would be hell as far as you're concerned.

Do you know that heaven is composed of dozens of completely isolated areas, each populated with a sub-branch of the various religions.

The reason for this is perfectly simple. The only way e.g. pentecostal adherents will ever be truly happy in heaven is if they honestly believe that they're the only ones there...

[boxtops]

I think the key word you say is "brainwashed" - whichever religion is followed, it's possible for people to be completely convinced, and then want to convince the rest of us, for our own good.
We had a good friend like this, and in the end we had to say to him "if you come to our house, we don't discuss religion, we don't agree with you". It did work.

[askyourgran]

Just tell him the truth, that you don't agree with his extreme views. Change the subject or avoid him in future. How can he be so sure?

[kryptic]

Thanks for answers so far folks. What I really cant wrap my head around is how ANYONE can really accept that torturing someone for eternity is justified?
I just cant understand the minset behind it.
Are people already unhinged (before converting to a religion) that they can accept things like this without batting an eyelid? Weird.

[mike11111]

If you ask mainstream religionists they will tell you that Hell is not a place of torture, but one of eternal separation from the love of God.

[ladyalex]

Beats me too, kryptic.

[kryptic]

mike, religionists (more precisely, christian fundamentalists) that ive spoke to and the bible references that ive read all speak of hell as a place of torture. To say that hell is merely 'seperation' from god is watering down what the bible actually says.

[kryptic]

""Hell is not a place of torture, but one of eternal separation from the love of God. ""
Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
sounds like torture to me.

[askyourgran]

I can only think that those people are lonely or naive and looking for something to hang on to, something or someone attractive to indoctrinate them into following a set of rules, (possibly 'brainwashing'), but giving them the feeling of importance to spread the word as they know it.
Sad.

[kryptic]

very sad gran

[Cowtipper]

I've gone to a Pentecost church or two and they have some odd ideas. I saw a guy "speak in tongues" and it was just gibberish to me. I've maintained that since the Tower of Babel fell speaking in tongues is the only way to get everyone hearing the same thing. I'm no expert. Calling them Holy Rollers is crude, but I've seen people rolling in the isles. Your friend telling you your departed family is rotting in hell is a crude assumption and extremely rude. Clocking a rude person isn't a large sin. I'm sure Jesus would forgive you for trying to turn his cheek for him.
Personally I find religion to be a interesting topic. Its something that almost everyone has an opinion on and you can take a number of stances about. My best defense against bible thumpers is to point out the politics of their church. Its always easier to point out the plank than the mote.

[kryptic]

""Clocking a rude person isn't a large sin. I'm sure Jesus would forgive you for trying to turn his cheek for him.""
Haha, excellent.

[keyplus90]

I don't know whay atheists are so worried (all the time) about these things. If you do not believe in God, Paradise and Hell then what is the worry? For you it does not exist and thats the end of it.

Or are you not sure?

[boxtops]

Good point keyplus - those who believe can be quite worrying in their conviction. Each to their own, I say.

[Cowtipper]

I think its actually the same issue. The religious person is just as adamant as the atheist in my experience.

[Canary42]

But it's not the end of it keyplus for us atheists - it pervades our very lives (e.g. Blair and Bush "God told me to invade Iraq")

[classylady60]

My view on this is that we are in The Hell now on this very planet. With all the evil things that go on here and it always seems to win over everything else IMO...then this must be hell and we are living in it.

CL