religious education in schools

[kryptic]

A letter in my local paper tonight, laments that the government are proposing to delete RE from the school curriculum. The correspondent believes that RE gives children an insight into other belief systems and cultures and can give children a 'moral backbone.' He also believes that teaching religion can be harmonious to all, regardless of race, colour or creed.
I was just wondering what other ABers thought about the teaching of RE in school.
Good thing or bad thing?
Thanks.

[mibn2cweus]

Huderon, I concede, there are varying interpretations and degrees of adherence to the various books Christians go by. But I fail to see where one interpretation usurps another that is more literal and takes the nonsense therein as gospel truth. I suppose there's some truth interspersed within the pages of Mein Kampf as well but I would never promote it or blind allegiance to the followers of its dogma as a rational way to live.

My previous comments were not addressed to those who already subscribe to the white washed version but to point out the rottenness of what lies beneath to those who have not yet been so blinded. I'm not trying to put my words in your mouth, but if my thoughts have any meaning to you, perhaps they're worth considering, if not for your own sake than for the sake of young impressionable minds that are only beginning to formulate and come to grips with the reality they face and will be required to contend with for the rest of their lives.

Religion by and large is anathema to reason and the ability to determine right from wrong based on a rational understanding of what distinguishes one from the other. It is no less dangerous and crippling to critical thinking when one attempts to disguise it as anything more or less then precisely what it is. Religious education (pardon the oxymoron)) is not something to be taken lightly. Developing ones ability to think critically is prerequisite to not falling victim to any alleged wisdom one might be able to extract from any asserted pretext designed specifically to put ones own mind on the back burner until it has been suitably incapacitated to the point of accepting the unacceptable and no longer able to comprehend the reprehensibility of what is being offered in lieu of reason.

[RATTER15]

^^^^^^ What did he say?

[Ankou]

dunno, something about godwins law

[ll_billym]

In my school 99% of the pupils were white and 'Christian' - whether practising or not - so RE was mainly about Bible stories with a few 'projects' about other faiths. This worked rather well as everyone was pretty much on the same page and our RE teacher was a nice bloke who wouldn't give much homework and he used bring in interesting people he knew in the community (or from jail on more than one occasion!), and we would watch films such as the 'Cross and the Switchblade'. Altogether a bit of a laugh and no harm done.

Anyway, I think that RE should be taught as long as it is billed as learning 'about religions'. Unfortunately religion is very pervasive in our society and affects many aspects of everyone's lives in one way or another, even if it is just what we see when we walk about, so children need to learn about it as it will help understanding of society, but from the point of view of 'this is what some people believe' and if the question comes 'who is right' then the answer is that 'it is a faith and it can never be proven who is right, if anybody' and leave it at that.

[beso]

Well said mibn2cweus

The whole idea of faith as a virtue and religious devotion as a worthy pursuit is ridiculous. Those who subscribe to there traits aught to be embarrassed at their ignorance and bigotry.

It amazes me that people are proud to claim that they have no need to think because the already know the truth through faith despite their beliefs being in conflict with objective reality.

[mibn2cweus]

ll_billym, It might be worthwhile to add that faith is invariably wrong by virtue of adopting a belief for which there is no proof. Such beliefs render the application of any previous or subsequent knowledge in coming to a valid conclusion virtually meaningless. Faith is the ultimate wild card against any subsequent appeals to reason. Get someone to unquestionably believe in your god and their mind becomes, from that point on, putty in your hands, for whatever value you might imagine there to be in achieving such an auspicious goal. But don't neglect the crucial first step, disabling their ability to reason. For the majority, that would appear to be the easy part as that has typically been achieved in childhood with the edict, "Don't question the authority of prevailing 'wisdom'."


Ankou, I have my own version of 'Godwin's Law' - When God wins . . . you lose!

[Ankou]

well there is no god, therefore i must be a winner

[Old_Geezer]

Surely hypotheses come first, proof later. Assuming there is a way to prove them one way or the other.

[ll_billym]

Mibs, I take your point and of course I agree with your premise that the claims made by religion (e.g. there is a god) cannot be tested by science and are therefore purely a belief or faith system. However, to keep on-topic I think that the next step in the argument - that because religion lies 'outside science' it is an invalid and incorrect way to view the world - should not be taught in an RE classroom, many children will believe that what they have been told by their family etc. is true and some will never change their views on this throughout their lives so it is important that they learn about the belief systems of other members of society. This is a pragmatic view of how to deal with the education of children about religion in the world that we live in: "Some believe this, others believe that, and there is no way to tell who, if anyone is correct, it is based purely on faith."

The fact that religion is not a valid scientific viewpoint SHOULD be taught though, in the science classroom, where the differentiation between believing something is true and actually being able to prove something is true, and the power of proof, is clearly conveyed. Maybe in this way seeds of reason may be sown in a few little minds.

[pretty_snowdrop]

Whether you like it or not, we all have different religions and beliefs and it is not necessarily about which religion is wrong or right or whether it all all a load of nonsense. If everybody had a better understanding of each others beliefs i think the world could be a nicer and more tolerant place. On that basis alone i don't think RE is schools, if taught properly will do any harm.

[kryptic]

Very interesting answers,
thanks guys.
My stepson got in to trouble some time ago at school for questioning the bible ( asking why the god of the old testament was such a murderous monster). Turns out that the teacher was a bit religious herself. Now that he's in high school, he has a proffessed atheist as an RE teacher and hes encouraged to ask difficult questions.
Maybe its not the subject itself that is the problem, but the person teaching it.

[beso]

I actually don't have a problem with people believing in a God. It really doesn't matter.

What I will not tolerate is those who claim that they have inside knowledge of the will of a universal deity and insist that it be taken as the unquestionable basis for morality for all of humanity. I am particularly averse to that concept when their version of morality is quite obviously contrary to the observed natural order.

For example, homosexuality is objectively part of the character of some individuals in many species. Religion teaches that it is a manifestation of evil and in doing so inflict considerable damage on those people.

The sin of sex before marriage and indeed marriage itself as the only valid fprm of a sexual relationship between two people . Most marriages end in divorce but still they persist with the archaic attitudes and insist that no other model is valid. They pretend that the damage to those who break the tenants of their arbitrary contract is due to the failure to fulfill their god's will when in fact their bigotry and prejudice is the real foundation of the problems.

The religious persist with veneration of those who have committed genocide, enslavement and incest. No other aspect of religious belief demonstrates the extent of the damage to the cognitive abilities of the devoted.

Religion is full of this kind of undesirable "morality" yet the faithful are incapable of objective assessment.

I despise the teaching of the abrogation of responsibility for moral judgement in favour of a moral code dictated by the dubiously anointed who simply perpetuate the bigotry of stone age goat herders.

[RATTER15]

I agree 10 Clarion St, and when they get bored with that hobby they can take up something a little more constructive, Knitting or crochet maybe, the really enthusiastic could even do something like a large tapestry to hang on a wall somewhere!

[DaisyNonna]

Children need to learn that not everybody thinks in the same way. They need to know that there are different religions and that some people do not believe in any religion. What is wrong with teaching this? We need children to grow up understanding other people, to accept differences, to respect beliefs, to have a moral code. It is their choice. If they are in ignorance, there can be no choice. Belonging to a certain religious group or being an agnostic or an atheist is not to be wrong. It is to be different.

[RATTER15]

Daisy, Why a moral code? do you think you have to be taught about religion to have a moral code?

I think you will find morals were around a long time before religion.

[beso]

I don't see why we should respect religious beliefs when they are based on suspending any reference to facts and promoting that the tenets of their faith should control society because they have the "one true God".

Should we also respect fascist beliefs as part of respecting all beliefs?

[pretty_snowdrop]

It is more a matter of respecting the fact that people have different beliefs, than respecting the belief itself.

[beso]

So just exactly how do we respect the fact that someone has fascist beliefs?

[pretty_snowdrop]

Fascism isn't a religion it is a political ideology, but i do agree with the point you are making. Why respect something when you believe its all a load of claptrap?
If Christians had a better understanding of Islam and vise versa don't you think the world might be safer place? If RE isn't taught in schools how are children going to know about different cultures and religious beliefs? Just because we don't believe in them ourselves I still think it is important to understand why other people do.