Do you need moral guidance?

[naomi24]

http://www.channel4.c...thoughttv/4od#3314326

I found the implications of this video rather disturbing. This man appears to be saying that he adheres to an acceptable moral code only because he fears the negative consequences of his actions - as taught by Islam - in the next life. He then talks about children needing moral guidance, but still he relies upon an outside source – Islam and the Koran - to provide it. Surely, as an adult, he knows right from wrong, and should be capable of living a decent lifestyle, and of teaching his children to do the same without abnegating his responsibility and without this feeble dependency?

[Davethedog]

If the quran doesn't say these things:

A) Why do they happen.

B) Why do the Islamic community stay silent.

No point in saying these things if you dont condem them is there?

Can you also tell me exactly what "bad thing" a woman has done by being raped?

I see that you have been reading Keyplus quite closely, however are the african muslims not muslims?

Remeber what I am asking here I am asking how you live your life "properly" when you condone this?

You decry it all saying its not part of the book but it is perpetrated by muslims against muslims and indeed anyone that get in their way.

All I am saying is condem it, tell me that all these things are wrong, no ifs, no buts no prevarication, just come out and say it is wrong, as any decent member of society would, and I will conceed that you live your life "properly"

[sith123]

//I see that you have been reading Keyplus quite closely, however are the african muslims not muslims? //

i dont know how educated you are, but there is a link between culture and religion. Some people do things because of their culture. For example in countries like Pakistan and India there is a thing called the huka. Now when you look at it you think of a cigarette. It is not. it is a cultural thing. yes it does damage health which is wrong however islam does not support this. It is a CULTURAL thing.

Does society say that:

A) you should go around murdering people

B) you should rape

C)You should do drugs

D)Prostitution is legal

E)Fights should occur in the streets

F) you should be racist

etc etc etc

No, it does not. Society does not support it by any means and if any society does it is a corrupt society. Now, even though they do not support it, it still happens. Why? Is the country to blame? the people? The government? no they are not. It is only a few bad people affecting the majority. Same with religion. any religion. Take islam for example. The few who do bad things are magnified in the media, over exposed and affect the majority who, in actual fact, say and think that what these people are doing is wrong. Of course, how often is this portrayed in the media? none.

So yes, the quran does not say these things but there is always a few who will misinterpret or just be plain bad. Than the majority have to suffer these few.

[Davethedog]

Yet again you avoid the question, a veiled insult, I would say without question not only am i far better educated than you. You are not a very intelligent person.

"Does society say that:
A) you should go around murdering people
B) you should rape
C)You should do drugs
D)Prostitution is legal
E)Fights should occur in the streets
F) you should be racist"

No it doesn't, but a civilised society condems those actions, I have never seen a newspaper praise glory to god because someone git shot, have you?

These actions done in the name of allah are not perpetrated by a few that misinterpret or just be plain bad, is it it is governments, it is imans it is the church.

In Iran and Saudi if the Ayotollah or the Imans said it was wrong it would stop.

And still you don't condem.

When you talk about society, what society are you talking about? If you are talking about Britain, you are talking about a society that allows freedom and you are correct about a few, however we are not talking about society are we?

We are talking about a religion that you are desperatly attempting to deflect criticism, whist appearing to be reasoned, you are not, you condone all the actions that I said and these are not by a few individuals.

Now as d how in hell do you live your life properly? Educated? Your educated to the level of a 5th century peasent

[sith123]

//No it doesn't, but a civilised society condems those actions, I have never seen a newspaper praise glory to god because someone git shot, have you?//

so has any of these lowered in the past few years??? Isnt America a civilised society? yet they have the death penalty and are allowed to carry guns. But you wont say anything about that. In spain children as young as 13 can get married. will you say anything against that? doubt it.

If youre trying to make this personal by saying i am not educated and all that i can play along and do so back. But i wont.

//Now as d how in hell do you live your life properly? Educated? Your educated to the level of a 5th century peasent//

If you look back at 5th century peasants than they were all in England or the west. Other countries were far more advanced.

[jomifl]

Justify that last statement please Sith otherwise we will all think that you are talking complete b0llocks again.

[Davethedog]

Last post

You said "i dont know how educated you are" so you we there and are trying to be the offended party.

Yet again you fail to condem the actions of your faith.

If you look back at 5th century peasants than they were all in England or the west. Greece - Italy

You just make it up as you go along.

[sith123]

now were going on an entirely different topic. By all means open up another thread about that and invite Me to contribute and i will, but not here otherwise the whole topic will be messed up. In simple words however back then a lot of technology that was advanced for that time and sciences came from parts of Africa like egypt and asia like india, the middle east etc. Up until the 13-14th century Eastern medicine was far more advanced than western medicine. Hence why during the crusades many christian warriors died from minor wounds that could be easily healed. It wasnt until the 18th-19th century that western technology passed that of eastern.

back onto this question, Dave, why do i have to condem my religion?

[naomi24]

Sith, you don’t HAVE to condemn your religion – but if you were honest and had any sense of morality, there are aspects of your religion that you would condemn.

[sith123]

than i dont condemn my religion, yes, i condem some of the people in my religion that do bad things and give islam a bad name, but i do not condem my religion.

[naomi24]

Sith, your religion condones some of those 'bad things' - and you know it. There is no escaping that.

[sith123]

yes, i repeat, i condem some of the bad people in my religion that give islam a bad name. I think that answers that.

[naomi24]

Sith, Yes, I know you think that answers it - but it doesn't because if your religion didn't condone it those 'bad people' wouldn't do it. Islam gives itself a bad name.

[sith123]

they do condone it, yet people still do it. your point is invalid as lets say for example in England, do we support murders? no. Do we condone them? yes. Do they still happen? yes. My point proven.

[naomi24]

Sith, what on earth are you talking about? Who condones murder? The only thing you've proven is that you don't know the difference between 'condone' and 'condemn'.

[sith123]

oops, may have gotten them mixed :)