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I would love to have a faith, but these are some of the contradictions and difficulties I can't sort out. Help would be appreciated
RC and Muslim friends in particular are confident that they are following the "true path" and that everyone else is wrong.
In world war 1, priests on each side told the soldiers that "God is on your side"
Hundreds of religions promised life after death only if you were of their particular faith. For instance, Egyptian Pharoahs went to extraordinary lengths to ensure this.. were they successful, or was the religion one of the best con tricks of all time?
When the dodgy popes sold indulgences, did the purchasers get what they paid for?
I could go on, but you should have the idea by now...
Straight factual answers would be good, not copy & pasted chunks of gunge...
RC and Muslim friends in particular are confident that they are following the "true path" and that everyone else is wrong.
In world war 1, priests on each side told the soldiers that "God is on your side"
Hundreds of religions promised life after death only if you were of their particular faith. For instance, Egyptian Pharoahs went to extraordinary lengths to ensure this.. were they successful, or was the religion one of the best con tricks of all time?
When the dodgy popes sold indulgences, did the purchasers get what they paid for?
I could go on, but you should have the idea by now...
Straight factual answers would be good, not copy & pasted chunks of gunge...
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//In world war 1, priests on each side told the soldiers that "God is on your side"//. I doubt in the entire history of human conflict there has been, even a tribe, that didn't look to it's gods to help it defeat it's foe in what it considered to be a "just" battle. Also in war it is seldom the case that side A is 100% right, and side B 100% wrong. In any case, it is a curious reason to eschew all religion having said you "would love to have a faith". Is your struggle to find your salvation limited to asking this question on AnswerBank?
Jomifl; To which religions do you refer? 'The academic study of salvation is called soteriology. It concerns itself with the comparative study of how different religious traditions conceive salvation and how they believe it is effected or achieved. In Indian religions, for example, the concept of salvation (which is called moksha) involves being free from an endless process of transmigration of the soul, a belief that is absent from Abrahamic soteriology. In Jainism and Buddhism divine agency does not have any role in salvation since both religions regard the matter from a purely causal point of view.
In both Eastern and Western religions salvation is also the phenomenon of being saved from death but here is not meant biological death but the suffering and degradation within life resulting from the consequences of sin. In Christianity one who has attained salvation is said to experience and inherit eternal life in God or what in Buddhism is called nirvana (whose synonym amaravati means "deathlessness").'
In both Eastern and Western religions salvation is also the phenomenon of being saved from death but here is not meant biological death but the suffering and degradation within life resulting from the consequences of sin. In Christianity one who has attained salvation is said to experience and inherit eternal life in God or what in Buddhism is called nirvana (whose synonym amaravati means "deathlessness").'
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I see Tweedledum and Tweedledee are still squabbling! Not much hope for the human race there, then, Go do it somewhere else, please.
Khandro - I have Muslim and RC friends (converted RCs even!!) who seem in particular to have an inner peace and certainty - this is what I would like to achieve.
I've been reading most of the holy books for many years, and am impressed with the Tao te Ching and some Buddhist writings.
The Old Testament doesn't do much for me - It starts with a flood story filched intact from the Epic of Gilgamesh, wit name changes, and proceeds to a recitation of tribal wars, supervised by a God who appears to have many human frailties - mass murder of the Egyptians, for a start.
The New Testament shares with many other religions the idea of doing unto others etc, and appears to be a mish mash of odd manuscripts. Many Christian feasts and observances were lifted from pre- existing pagan festivals, too.
I have attended an English speaking mosque, a Quaker meeting house, the excellent Buddhist place in Manchester and various churches, and have listened to people in all those places.
Is that enough for you, Khendra?
Khandro - I have Muslim and RC friends (converted RCs even!!) who seem in particular to have an inner peace and certainty - this is what I would like to achieve.
I've been reading most of the holy books for many years, and am impressed with the Tao te Ching and some Buddhist writings.
The Old Testament doesn't do much for me - It starts with a flood story filched intact from the Epic of Gilgamesh, wit name changes, and proceeds to a recitation of tribal wars, supervised by a God who appears to have many human frailties - mass murder of the Egyptians, for a start.
The New Testament shares with many other religions the idea of doing unto others etc, and appears to be a mish mash of odd manuscripts. Many Christian feasts and observances were lifted from pre- existing pagan festivals, too.
I have attended an English speaking mosque, a Quaker meeting house, the excellent Buddhist place in Manchester and various churches, and have listened to people in all those places.
Is that enough for you, Khendra?
Venator, If you a trying to find inner peace then perhaps 'faith' might not be what you need. The issues that are preventing you from having inner peace will not go away if you acquire faith in a 'faith'. Try resolving each issue on it's own merits. Quite often when subconcious worries are brought into the concious mind and identified their irationality becomes apparent and they vanish.
The answer is quite simple. You can't have the same mind set as those you believe have something you don't but actually lack something you have without similarly suspending judgment on certain issues, without consideration for the cost to humanity of selective reasoning, belief in the arbitrary and wholesale self-deception. You are standing at the crossroad between honesty. integrity and conviction or simply refusing to acknowledge personal responsibility for the consequences of what you think, believe and do. for the sake of enjoying the fellowship of crucifix toting members of the mutual self loathing society.
The choice is your's whether to treat your mind like a fair weather friend to be abandoned at the expense of your self-respect for the sake of basking beneath the clouds of self-deception or to acknowledge that our lot as human beings will be determine by our willingness to accept that the process of being human will forever be a work in progress.
The choice is your's whether to treat your mind like a fair weather friend to be abandoned at the expense of your self-respect for the sake of basking beneath the clouds of self-deception or to acknowledge that our lot as human beings will be determine by our willingness to accept that the process of being human will forever be a work in progress.
venator; I take back my comment about a question on AnswerBank, but you hadn't answered my previous question asking what you had so far done. I agree with jomifl's premise above, but not his conclusion. Trying to be constructive; I don't believe it is sufficient to just attend meetings in the places you have mentioned, in each place there will be someone of experience (teacher) to whom you can talk to on a 1 to 1 basis and put your questions. As a preamble to this I add that there are two paths, one is the path of absolute awareness achieved through meditation, the path the Buddha took, the other is the path of faith, which is achieved through prayer, the path shown by Christ.
Venator, the promises of life after death by some religions are rather hollow and were probably only meant as a metaphor originally. If you are looking for life after death then I think you will probably be disappointed. Some non-deistic belief systems such as buddhism do seem to be able to deliver the goods re. peace of mind but others such as the abrahamic religions will engulf you in guilt so be careful which you choose. I suspect that it is not necessary to adopt a faith, rather learn from the appropriate ones how to acquire internal peace.
Thanks for your sincere and well reasoned help, especially recent posts from Khandro and jomifl. I have had talked with many people of faith in my more than 70 years, but have never heard anything to inspire that kind of certainty which I have called faith.
I try to live in a manner which harms nobody, and have many friends and few people I dislike.
Perhaps I might renounce the world and spend my final years in meditation.
I try to live in a manner which harms nobody, and have many friends and few people I dislike.
Perhaps I might renounce the world and spend my final years in meditation.
mibn2cweus comments that "the process of being human will forever be a work in progress."
This is a pretty good slant on all religions.
We see the remains of powerful old religions - pyramids, Mayan temples and the like - all discredited and largely forgotten.
From the first caveman who decided that the big shiny thing in the sky was a god, and probably made a good living from the idea, right up to the latest cult, all religions have a lifespan, die and are forgotten.
What makes followers of the current religions think they have answers or understanding in the face of this?
Perhaps mibn2cweus and Nietzsche have the answer - we are not yet sufficiently evolved to be able to discover the purpose of it all.
This is a pretty good slant on all religions.
We see the remains of powerful old religions - pyramids, Mayan temples and the like - all discredited and largely forgotten.
From the first caveman who decided that the big shiny thing in the sky was a god, and probably made a good living from the idea, right up to the latest cult, all religions have a lifespan, die and are forgotten.
What makes followers of the current religions think they have answers or understanding in the face of this?
Perhaps mibn2cweus and Nietzsche have the answer - we are not yet sufficiently evolved to be able to discover the purpose of it all.
