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Richard Dawkins V Rowan Williams Round Two
116 Answers
When; Tonight
Where; Cambridge Union;
'To be filmed and made available on line.' In round 1 Prof. Dawkins admitted that there was a (remote) possibility that God existed. Will he acquiesce further against the full power of Williams's intellect, no longer Archbishop? Oh, to be there!
Where; Cambridge Union;
'To be filmed and made available on line.' In round 1 Prof. Dawkins admitted that there was a (remote) possibility that God existed. Will he acquiesce further against the full power of Williams's intellect, no longer Archbishop? Oh, to be there!
Answers
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Khandro, im not ever aware of any atheist including Naomi stating categorically that God does not exist. like it say on the bus:
http://
http://
This debate happened back in 2012.
Dawkins has publicly stated the same position regarding the existence of a deity since the publication of The God Delusion in which he introduced a 7-point scale, in which 7 was:
“Strong atheist: ‘I know there is no God . . .” and 6 was “Very low probability [of existence of gods] but short of zero. De facto atheist. ‘I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.’”
He went on: “I’d be surprised to meet many people in category 7 . . . I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7 – I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.”
He has subsequently stated he's a 6.9.
It was apparently surprising to those who hadn't actually read TGD, but certainly nothing new, and a position shared by many atheists.
Dawkins has publicly stated the same position regarding the existence of a deity since the publication of The God Delusion in which he introduced a 7-point scale, in which 7 was:
“Strong atheist: ‘I know there is no God . . .” and 6 was “Very low probability [of existence of gods] but short of zero. De facto atheist. ‘I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.’”
He went on: “I’d be surprised to meet many people in category 7 . . . I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7 – I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.”
He has subsequently stated he's a 6.9.
It was apparently surprising to those who hadn't actually read TGD, but certainly nothing new, and a position shared by many atheists.
Khandro, goodness! How little it takes to make the earth move for you! In the absence of evidence, it is irrational to claim certainty - which is why the claim that God does exist is completely illogical - and why the slogan on the atheist bus reads ‘There’s probably no God’. That’s not delusion – it’s rational.
That debate predated the modern evolutionary synthesis which merged the existing Darwinian ideas with the newer genetic information. Wilberforce could be forgiven for his quip (although it was widely consider to be a poor barb even at the time), but it is now established beyond reasonable objection to be true.
Ratter; If a person states that they believe God possibly DOES exist (on AB) and they are told that they are weak-minded, deluded, and worse. I think it is fair to say that the accuser is '' stating categorically that God does not exist." I don't care what it says on the bus, but I know what it says on the tin; 'Atheism is disbelief in a deity'. If you don't subscribe to that, you are either an agnostic or a theist.
Nonsense: atheism and theism are positions on belief. Agnosticism and gnosticism are positions on knowledge.
From: http://
An atheist agnostic is someone who does not believe in gods and also thinks that the existence of gods cannot be known. This might mean that they don’t believe in gods because they haven’t seen any evidence that supports their existence.
A theist gnostic is someone who believes in a god/gods and thinks that the existence of gods can be known. This position is usually referred to as just ‘theist‘, since people who believe in gods, usually also think that their existence can be known.
An atheist gnostic is someone who does not believe in gods, and who thinks that we can know that gods do not exist. A fairly unusual position, they might think they have found proof of the non-existence of gods, or might have been persuaded by life experiences.
A theist agnostic is someone who believes in gods, but thinks that they could not know for sure that their god exists. Another fairly unusual position, as people who have faith in gods usually also think that their god can be known to be real.
From: http://
An atheist agnostic is someone who does not believe in gods and also thinks that the existence of gods cannot be known. This might mean that they don’t believe in gods because they haven’t seen any evidence that supports their existence.
A theist gnostic is someone who believes in a god/gods and thinks that the existence of gods can be known. This position is usually referred to as just ‘theist‘, since people who believe in gods, usually also think that their existence can be known.
An atheist gnostic is someone who does not believe in gods, and who thinks that we can know that gods do not exist. A fairly unusual position, they might think they have found proof of the non-existence of gods, or might have been persuaded by life experiences.
A theist agnostic is someone who believes in gods, but thinks that they could not know for sure that their god exists. Another fairly unusual position, as people who have faith in gods usually also think that their god can be known to be real.
Two things:
1) As has been said many times on this site man is not descended from monkeys or from apes.
Man is an ape - one of the five Great Africa Apes comprising bonono, chimpanzee, man, gorilla and orang utan. Man's nearest ancestor is the common ancestor of man, chimpanzee and bonono. What creature that common ancestor was cannot be determined.
2) There is little difference between a theist and an agnostic. One believes in a god without evidence, the other thinks (without evidence) that a god may exist. Both therefore think irrationally.
As a matter of degree I would place a theist and an agnostic close together on a bench in Hyde Park and an atheist on a similar bench in New York's Central Park, or even on Mars.
1) As has been said many times on this site man is not descended from monkeys or from apes.
Man is an ape - one of the five Great Africa Apes comprising bonono, chimpanzee, man, gorilla and orang utan. Man's nearest ancestor is the common ancestor of man, chimpanzee and bonono. What creature that common ancestor was cannot be determined.
2) There is little difference between a theist and an agnostic. One believes in a god without evidence, the other thinks (without evidence) that a god may exist. Both therefore think irrationally.
As a matter of degree I would place a theist and an agnostic close together on a bench in Hyde Park and an atheist on a similar bench in New York's Central Park, or even on Mars.
To say there is 100% no god defies critical thinking which, logicaly, requires proof. Based on current availability of evidence or lack thereof, you would lean to 99.9999% no god. But as there is no conclusive proof, nobody can say there is no god.
What we can say, is that Prayer doesn't work, faith is never rewarded, except in the minds of the faithful, That every word of the holy books was written by man, that the vast majority of that, that is written is historicaly wrong and that things attributed to god have a rational explanation, also things written as fact are not.
We are also aware that the faithful, are also athiest because they dismiss out of hand every other god but their own, they cannot explain and will why but they expect anyone who doesn't believe in their god to disprove, in the face of blind faith.
As far as intellect is concerned, an atheist teenager can ask questions that Williams cannot answer, except using the "faith" get out of jail free.
Anyone who defies rationality, in my opinon, has very low intellectual capabilities.
What we can say, is that Prayer doesn't work, faith is never rewarded, except in the minds of the faithful, That every word of the holy books was written by man, that the vast majority of that, that is written is historicaly wrong and that things attributed to god have a rational explanation, also things written as fact are not.
We are also aware that the faithful, are also athiest because they dismiss out of hand every other god but their own, they cannot explain and will why but they expect anyone who doesn't believe in their god to disprove, in the face of blind faith.
As far as intellect is concerned, an atheist teenager can ask questions that Williams cannot answer, except using the "faith" get out of jail free.
Anyone who defies rationality, in my opinon, has very low intellectual capabilities.
I would also add, as far christianity is concerned, they also add to the no god evidence.
according to the Bible, god spoke all the time to all sorts of people and did all sort of acts, turning people into salt destroying cities, parting seas etc.
However he no longer does, in fact the omnipotent god who acted so swiftly and venomously and told everyone, hasn't spoken for hundreds - thousands of years.
Why? Is he dead? If Sodom and Gomorrah deserved his wrath, what of all the major citys in the world today. Surely his wrath is great.
according to the Bible, god spoke all the time to all sorts of people and did all sort of acts, turning people into salt destroying cities, parting seas etc.
However he no longer does, in fact the omnipotent god who acted so swiftly and venomously and told everyone, hasn't spoken for hundreds - thousands of years.
Why? Is he dead? If Sodom and Gomorrah deserved his wrath, what of all the major citys in the world today. Surely his wrath is great.
Khandro, //If a person states that they believe God possibly DOES exist (on AB) and they are told that they are weak-minded, deluded, and worse.//
Not true. That has been said, but only to people who claim belief in a god. I can’t recall it being said to anyone who has reasoned that it may be a possibility. You’ve either misunderstood people’s posts – or you’re deliberately contorting them to suit your purpose.
Not true. That has been said, but only to people who claim belief in a god. I can’t recall it being said to anyone who has reasoned that it may be a possibility. You’ve either misunderstood people’s posts – or you’re deliberately contorting them to suit your purpose.
The definitions given conform to those in the Oxford English Dictionary, though perhaps you might clarify whether or not you think that a good dictionary?
For reference, from the OED:
Agnostic: a) A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of immaterial things, especially of the existence or nature of God
Gnostic: a) Relating to knowledge; cognitive; intellectual.
i.e. relating to knowledge
Atheist: a) One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.
Theist: a) One who holds the doctrine of theism ("Theism: a) Belief in a deity, or deities, as opposed to atheism.")
i.e. relating to beliefs
Which do you think codswallop, and how do the terms in the article I quoted not fit with those definitions?
For reference, from the OED:
Agnostic: a) A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of immaterial things, especially of the existence or nature of God
Gnostic: a) Relating to knowledge; cognitive; intellectual.
i.e. relating to knowledge
Atheist: a) One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.
Theist: a) One who holds the doctrine of theism ("Theism: a) Belief in a deity, or deities, as opposed to atheism.")
i.e. relating to beliefs
Which do you think codswallop, and how do the terms in the article I quoted not fit with those definitions?
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