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Does The Existence Of War And Of Suffering And Food Shortages Prove That There Is No God
60 Answers
this not true
much disease is a resolve of mans only for living habits and poor livings habits.
and his spoiling of the environment for himself.? --- and other
are not the war fought by humans
a major calls of human suffering .??????
is it not also true --that while millions suffer from lack of food ,
there is more than enough in other lands,
so that one of the underlying problems is human greed ?.
all these thing s given evidence., not that there is no god
but that humans are sadly miss using their god given abilities and the earth itself.
Knox Bible Revelation 11-18
The heathen have vented their rage upon us, but now the day of thy retribution has come; the time when thou wilt judge the dead, rewarding thy servants, prophets and holy men and all who fear thy name, little or great,
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Incredibubble bibblebub
Your quote from the fairy tales - random or not ? ANYWAY
It is Mt 13 10 and is of a form I thought I should look up:
blepontes ou blepousin (seeing they do not see)
kai
akouontes ou akouousin (hearing they do not hear)
oude suniousin (they dont get it either)
this part of the fairy tale is a typical Aramaism (one word with two mutations balanced by a second word with two mutations - a balanced sentence of two clauses ) and can be dated to er 0 BC. and occurs in all three gospels. This would show that not only was it said around well 0 BC give or take a few beers but that it was important enough to be recorded in three versions - which would lead us to conclude it was actually said by one person (rather than made up by one person) thought important at the time.
The very words of God out of the mouth of an unbeliever. I sat there stunned. It was almost as if a frog instead of saying Brreeeax said: why dont you buy ten thousand Barclays ?
Have a good Easter and God Choice of fairy tale ! -
Your quote from the fairy tales - random or not ? ANYWAY
It is Mt 13 10 and is of a form I thought I should look up:
blepontes ou blepousin (seeing they do not see)
kai
akouontes ou akouousin (hearing they do not hear)
oude suniousin (they dont get it either)
this part of the fairy tale is a typical Aramaism (one word with two mutations balanced by a second word with two mutations - a balanced sentence of two clauses ) and can be dated to er 0 BC. and occurs in all three gospels. This would show that not only was it said around well 0 BC give or take a few beers but that it was important enough to be recorded in three versions - which would lead us to conclude it was actually said by one person (rather than made up by one person) thought important at the time.
The very words of God out of the mouth of an unbeliever. I sat there stunned. It was almost as if a frog instead of saying Brreeeax said: why dont you buy ten thousand Barclays ?
Have a good Easter and God Choice of fairy tale ! -
If you start from the premise that there is a God then EVERYTHING is evidence of God: Lumps of coal, human greed, the Bible, the universe, cat poo etc.
This is why atheists don't accept any of it as evidence (or even use it as evidence against, although you appear to think otherwise) - it is everyday crap.
No doubt humans are greedy and like a punch up but what's new? If the stars move and form 'Billy Believe' then I'm all yours baby.
This is why atheists don't accept any of it as evidence (or even use it as evidence against, although you appear to think otherwise) - it is everyday crap.
No doubt humans are greedy and like a punch up but what's new? If the stars move and form 'Billy Believe' then I'm all yours baby.
-- answer removed --
I think you all are spectacularly missing the point.
True only blind only see what they want to "see".
But if you can see the progress of its fulfillment in this eventful 21th century, you are a poor lot
But there again Jesus warned against a ‘wicked eye’. (Mark 7:22) and he looked upon the poor, blind sheep in his day. Matt 25:32.
//What does that say about God?
Is He incapable of intervention? If so, how can He be God?
Is He capable of intervention but chooses not to intervene? Does He want innocent people to suffer?//
Birdie @That says one reason why we need to walk with God is explained at Jeremiah 10:23: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.
So people have neither the ability nor the right to direct our own life course. We are in desperate need of guidance. Those who insist on going their own way, independent of God, make the same mistake that Adam and Eve made assumed the right to determine for themselves what is good and what is bad. (Genesis 3:1-6) simple.
Naomi @ You say you know your Bible, too proud to acknowledge the possibility of wrong, too hardened in pride to consider a change, and many times too indifferent to care. You think that to change would make you lose face. And forget that refusal will make you lose life.
On one occasion, Almighty God said to a proud Pharaoh of Egypt: “For this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth. (Exodus 9:16) The same today.
True only blind only see what they want to "see".
But if you can see the progress of its fulfillment in this eventful 21th century, you are a poor lot
But there again Jesus warned against a ‘wicked eye’. (Mark 7:22) and he looked upon the poor, blind sheep in his day. Matt 25:32.
//What does that say about God?
Is He incapable of intervention? If so, how can He be God?
Is He capable of intervention but chooses not to intervene? Does He want innocent people to suffer?//
Birdie @That says one reason why we need to walk with God is explained at Jeremiah 10:23: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.
So people have neither the ability nor the right to direct our own life course. We are in desperate need of guidance. Those who insist on going their own way, independent of God, make the same mistake that Adam and Eve made assumed the right to determine for themselves what is good and what is bad. (Genesis 3:1-6) simple.
Naomi @ You say you know your Bible, too proud to acknowledge the possibility of wrong, too hardened in pride to consider a change, and many times too indifferent to care. You think that to change would make you lose face. And forget that refusal will make you lose life.
On one occasion, Almighty God said to a proud Pharaoh of Egypt: “For this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth. (Exodus 9:16) The same today.
I'm unsure why anyone would want to accept as true the claims and opinions in an old set of texts without evidence. If one can not support a viewpoint without the need to trust some book, one that simply isn't accepted by all, then the viewpoint is unconvincing.
If there is a God then it is possible, even if they have wants, that what goes on down here needs to be left to its own devices to acomplish a greater goal. As a question, suffering doesn't advance the argument of either side.
If there is a God then it is possible, even if they have wants, that what goes on down here needs to be left to its own devices to acomplish a greater goal. As a question, suffering doesn't advance the argument of either side.
Ok you do become irritated at it. I am not trying to irritate anyone but I do not soften down what God says, there a enough unclear news report, censored or “slanted,” as is the case with many reports we get through the secular news,and is wrong and misleading. Jehovah’s witnesses know the importance of God’s warning and they want people to hear the truth. There is no need for anyone to let himself be hurt it. You can act on God’s warning. Jehovah’s witnesses are ready to help honest persons who want true, reliable news. Their preaching is not out of malice or faultfinding nor to get notoriety, but they love their neighbors. And, their diligence in calling personally on you.
//P.S. Good for you though - a post that was all your own words - A creditable effort :)// Is worth a try and is works?
//P.S. Good for you though - a post that was all your own words - A creditable effort :)// Is worth a try and is works?
@goodlife.
I would just like to applaud your most recent posts. Far. far better to hear an authentic voice rather than cut and paste from Watchtower.
Given that english is not your first language, it is very creditable.
That is not to say, however, that I am convinced by your arguments, I still disagree.
Your argument is still at its core, unconvincing though. You talk about how humans do not have the ability or the right!! to guide their own lives. You then deride "Secular" news, claiming it fails to report or hides stuff from us.
Firstly, lets deal with human abilities and rights to self determination. The ability of humans to direct the course of their lives, to set a pattern to follow for the future, and to offer improvements that make life easier is uncontested.In an eyeblink of time, geographically speaking, we have gone from being fixed to the ground to being able to fly, circumnavigating the earth. We have been able to explore our local astronomical companion, the moon - all in the space of 70 odd years! From when flight was first successfully achieved.
We have gone, in the space of around 30 years, from a global population of around 2.5 billion to a population of around 7 billion, and have developed the infra-structure, logistics and agriculture to house, feed, educate and provide places to work for the majority.
Medicine has improved in leaps and bounds.Life expectancy is on an upward trend. Child mortality is on an ever downward trend.
We have the ability - all of the above is by human hands.
And we certainly have the right to self-determination. Your notion of a god is a flawed remnant of a superstitious past, when divinity and magic was invoked to explain the unknown and later, to keep the masses in check. There is no clear and convincing evidence for the existence of god- just faith, belief and a few allegedly holy texts. Not one single piece of evidence, in over 2000 years. And which flavour of god? At least 3 abrahamic religions, numerous sub-cults, and a whole panapoly of deities to choose from. Which one is right? Which one is real? - The short answer - none of them, they all suffer from the same problem. No corroboration. No evidence. Just faith.
Religion could be likened to a bodily organ - the appendix of humanity, a vestigial organ, with no visible function, that can cause serious grief when it flares up, and which is not missed if excised from the body.
And you keep referring to "secular" news - that somehow it hides or distorts the truth.
Please give us all an actual example of what you mean.
And finally - you talk about JWs as earnest and honest brokers, concerned for humanity and wanting to bring them the "good news" - But what good news? All we ever hear from you is how bad the state of humanity is - It is relentless doom and gloom from you, offering a vision of humanity that I feel is unrecognisable. You reject science, because the evidence conflicts with your literal interpretation of biblical events.
Your truth, it seems to me, is filtered, distorted by the prism of your own faith. You happily offer a literal interpretation of creation, and continually inform us that the bible is inerrant. Yet when errors and inconsistencies in the bible are pointed out, you claim a defence that the bible is speaking metaphorically or that it needs to be interpreted in context.
You cannot have it both ways. Your faith is based upon superstition, you have no independent corroboration. You claim, on behalf of god, a subjugation of will of humanity,but offer nothing but biblical verse.
Let the scales fall off. Free yourself from the shackles of superstition, and find something worthwhile to do to help humanity.
I would just like to applaud your most recent posts. Far. far better to hear an authentic voice rather than cut and paste from Watchtower.
Given that english is not your first language, it is very creditable.
That is not to say, however, that I am convinced by your arguments, I still disagree.
Your argument is still at its core, unconvincing though. You talk about how humans do not have the ability or the right!! to guide their own lives. You then deride "Secular" news, claiming it fails to report or hides stuff from us.
Firstly, lets deal with human abilities and rights to self determination. The ability of humans to direct the course of their lives, to set a pattern to follow for the future, and to offer improvements that make life easier is uncontested.In an eyeblink of time, geographically speaking, we have gone from being fixed to the ground to being able to fly, circumnavigating the earth. We have been able to explore our local astronomical companion, the moon - all in the space of 70 odd years! From when flight was first successfully achieved.
We have gone, in the space of around 30 years, from a global population of around 2.5 billion to a population of around 7 billion, and have developed the infra-structure, logistics and agriculture to house, feed, educate and provide places to work for the majority.
Medicine has improved in leaps and bounds.Life expectancy is on an upward trend. Child mortality is on an ever downward trend.
We have the ability - all of the above is by human hands.
And we certainly have the right to self-determination. Your notion of a god is a flawed remnant of a superstitious past, when divinity and magic was invoked to explain the unknown and later, to keep the masses in check. There is no clear and convincing evidence for the existence of god- just faith, belief and a few allegedly holy texts. Not one single piece of evidence, in over 2000 years. And which flavour of god? At least 3 abrahamic religions, numerous sub-cults, and a whole panapoly of deities to choose from. Which one is right? Which one is real? - The short answer - none of them, they all suffer from the same problem. No corroboration. No evidence. Just faith.
Religion could be likened to a bodily organ - the appendix of humanity, a vestigial organ, with no visible function, that can cause serious grief when it flares up, and which is not missed if excised from the body.
And you keep referring to "secular" news - that somehow it hides or distorts the truth.
Please give us all an actual example of what you mean.
And finally - you talk about JWs as earnest and honest brokers, concerned for humanity and wanting to bring them the "good news" - But what good news? All we ever hear from you is how bad the state of humanity is - It is relentless doom and gloom from you, offering a vision of humanity that I feel is unrecognisable. You reject science, because the evidence conflicts with your literal interpretation of biblical events.
Your truth, it seems to me, is filtered, distorted by the prism of your own faith. You happily offer a literal interpretation of creation, and continually inform us that the bible is inerrant. Yet when errors and inconsistencies in the bible are pointed out, you claim a defence that the bible is speaking metaphorically or that it needs to be interpreted in context.
You cannot have it both ways. Your faith is based upon superstition, you have no independent corroboration. You claim, on behalf of god, a subjugation of will of humanity,but offer nothing but biblical verse.
Let the scales fall off. Free yourself from the shackles of superstition, and find something worthwhile to do to help humanity.
No it only proves that there is no "Good God" that actually cares for us in a personal manner.
Other religions have solved this problem in interesting ways
For example the Cathars believed that the Earth was the creation of an evil God and you were perpetually reincarnated into it until you managed to reach perfection and attained unity with a distant good God - not that dissimilar to hinduism.
It doesn't disprove God, just your God
Other religions have solved this problem in interesting ways
For example the Cathars believed that the Earth was the creation of an evil God and you were perpetually reincarnated into it until you managed to reach perfection and attained unity with a distant good God - not that dissimilar to hinduism.
It doesn't disprove God, just your God
-- answer removed --
Goodlife, //Naomi @ You say you know your Bible, too proud to acknowledge the possibility of wrong, //
Not at all. There is more than a possibility that the bible is wrong. It is wrong.
//too hardened in pride to consider a change,//
Why would I change? The bible is wrong and nothing will change that.
//and many times too indifferent to care. //
Never indifferent to dangerous doctrine.
//You think that to change would make you lose face.//
You’re very much mistaken. If I’m wrong, I have no objection to saying I’m wrong. However, in this instance I’m not.
// And forget that refusal will make you lose life.//.
I’ll lose life when I die – and so will you.
Not at all. There is more than a possibility that the bible is wrong. It is wrong.
//too hardened in pride to consider a change,//
Why would I change? The bible is wrong and nothing will change that.
//and many times too indifferent to care. //
Never indifferent to dangerous doctrine.
//You think that to change would make you lose face.//
You’re very much mistaken. If I’m wrong, I have no objection to saying I’m wrong. However, in this instance I’m not.
// And forget that refusal will make you lose life.//.
I’ll lose life when I die – and so will you.
True people don’t considered Jehovah’s timetable, some ridiculers in past that nothing would happen, that “all things [were] continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.” (2 Pet. 3:4) the bible said that, but you still missing the point.
It means that humans were never meant to rule themselves, history proves that, but when things go wrong you quickly blame God.
So True only blind only see what they want to "see".
Birdie@//And yet when a catastrophic earthquake strikes and tragically kills people or when a tsunami crashes into the coast, washing people away to a watery grave, suddenly God becomes unknowable and all mysterious.//
Did not Jesus foretell that earthquakes would occur in one place after another? When you consider what man is doing to the earth, is that surprising? Earthquakes and tsunami are the result of man’s mismanagement of the earth. Nothing to do with God.
It means that humans were never meant to rule themselves, history proves that, but when things go wrong you quickly blame God.
So True only blind only see what they want to "see".
Birdie@//And yet when a catastrophic earthquake strikes and tragically kills people or when a tsunami crashes into the coast, washing people away to a watery grave, suddenly God becomes unknowable and all mysterious.//
Did not Jesus foretell that earthquakes would occur in one place after another? When you consider what man is doing to the earth, is that surprising? Earthquakes and tsunami are the result of man’s mismanagement of the earth. Nothing to do with God.
Goodlife, //when things go wrong you quickly blame God.//
Who does? Certainly not those who don’t believe he exists. That would be impossible.
//Earthquakes and tsunami are the result of man’s mismanagement of the earth. //
Oh really? How was man mismanaging the earth in ancient times to cause earthquakes and tsunamis then?
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Who does? Certainly not those who don’t believe he exists. That would be impossible.
//Earthquakes and tsunami are the result of man’s mismanagement of the earth. //
Oh really? How was man mismanaging the earth in ancient times to cause earthquakes and tsunamis then?
http://
//Oh really? How was man mismanaging the earth in ancient times to cause earthquakes and tsunamis then?//
Shirly, the noise of chomping apples must have set off a few earthquakes and tsunamis.
Hurricanes? Obviously caused by gas from eating the apples in combination with the butterfly effect.
And volcanoes . . . the inevitable consequence of an inadequate supply of virgins to sacrifice.
Any more questions?
Shirly, the noise of chomping apples must have set off a few earthquakes and tsunamis.
Hurricanes? Obviously caused by gas from eating the apples in combination with the butterfly effect.
And volcanoes . . . the inevitable consequence of an inadequate supply of virgins to sacrifice.
Any more questions?
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