The Inherent Human Need To Believe In Something...

[joko]

some people cite the fact that, all over the planet, for thousands of years humans have believed in gods of some sort - as a kind of proof that gods must exist - if so many people believe it.

but actually i think this argument really just proves the opposite.

it proves humans inherent need to feel there is a higher purpose.
it shows its in our NATURE to search for more and to invent it if necessary.

all these gods take so many different forms and have many different ways, ways that suit the paticular society.
they also note the really remote tribes who have no outside contact who also know about god etc.
but each one totally believes that theirs is the one true god - so doesn't that show how it all MUST just be all in our minds?

if there was only one true god - wouldn't all these remote tribes all be worshiping the same one?
wouldn't the 'real' god, make sure they knew about him?

if all these other gods are false idols - why wouldn't 'god' try to correct them? why would he just let them blindly believe a fake one?

it cannot be the old chestnut of freewill - because that can only work when someone knows the 'truth' yet chooses the wrong path - so what about people who don't even know a path exists in the first place?

how can god expect people to follow him, if he does not make himself known to them...?

[joko]

i meant on here... but yes its made up - obviously

[jim360]

If we atheists are going to convert people to our point of view, as clearly some wish to, then all I'd ask is that we debate rationally. After all, the entire criticism leveled at religion is that it's irrational, so good "stooping to their level". So yeah, throwing about such obviously false statistics and what have you doesn't help anyone.

[goodlife]

Birdie@ You see there are many things done in the name of religion today, even the atheist religion, that you do not think are right. Often you may hear about people who have very immoral ways of life, but who are respectable members of churches. You may even know about religious leaders who have a very bad way of life, but who are still accepted as good religious leaders in their churches. Some religious leaders have said that homosexuality and having sex relations without being married are not wrong. But you know that the Bible does not say that. In fact, God had his people of Israel punished with death because they practiced such things. For the same reason he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. (Jude 7) Soon he will do the same to all modern-day false religion. In the Bible, such religion is represented as a prostitute because of its immoral relations with the “kings of the earth.”—Revelation 17:1, 2, 16. But how bad do you want it to get.

[naomi24]

And there goes Goodlife again, gleefully anticipating the imminent destruction of practically everyone on the planet. Oh goody! Roll on the end of the world!! What a happy chappy! ;o)

[Khandro]

birdie; In the 20th century the total number of deaths brought about by secular acts unmotivated by any religious ideology whatsoever, number around 200,000,000;
World war 1, 37,000,000
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians deliberately killed in WWII plus 3 million Russian POWs left to die)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 8,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 6,000,000 (the gulags plus the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
Suharto (Communists 1965-66) 500,000
- and there are many, many more. Compared to these figures the amount of deaths brought about purely by religious activities (though regrettable) are by comparison very small indeed.

[Purple_Popple]

Can't say I've ever had an 'inherent need' to belive in something that's not real.

[naomi24]

Khandro, The argument that tyrants are responsible for more deaths in this world than religion is pathetic. It doesn’t justify the slaughter committed in the name of religion - and it doesn’t excuse it!

[Khandro]

naomi; Are you suggesting that I am trying to justify slaughter?

[naomi24]

Well, aren't you?

[Khandro]

Absolutely not, I am suggesting that it’s time to abandon the mindlessly-repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.//

What a very silly thing to say! Your examples weren’t motivated by atheism, but by a lust for power. In fact if you think your despots were all atheists you need to do a bit of homework.

[Old_Geezer]

How can it prove a God or Gods either exist or doesn't ? Even as evidence it is open to interpretation.

Different descriptions of God merely indicate there is no clear picture yet. It shows nothing regarding the truth or otherwise of deities.

God doesn't claim to expect people to follow it. If you know where it does then you have proof of God's existence and should share.

[Khandro]

my post 9:52; "... deaths brought about by secular acts unmotivated by any religious ideology".

[naomi24]

So atheism is not "the real force behind the mass murders of history." Make your mind up.

[vetuste_ennemi]

“Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history” = people who do not believe in God (however defined by you, Khandro) will have a strong compulsion to murder = belief in a God (HDBYK) is necessary to restrain these murderous instincts. Gold star, Khandro!
When I’m at home tomorrow I’ll dig out an excerpt from the very entertaining monograph “Greater than You Think” (recommended by someone on AB) by Thomas Williams LC ThD. It’s an answer to Hitchens’ “God is not Great”, Dawkins’ “The God Delusion” and other such. The way he proceeds from his equally dodgy premises to his nonsensical conclusions is a true delight.

[joko]

Jim, it was just another way of saying 'majority'

it was not presented as a genuine factual statistic, got from the result of a worldwide survey - since that would be an absurd thing for me to claim to have done - i figured that would be obvious, since its an impossible figure to ever find ... but hey ho...

[joko]

thats because you now know better purple... but what of people from hundred or thousands of years ago living in isolated places...

why did so many of them independantly invent gods...?

[Khandro]

v-e; You've got me trembling with anticipation !

[naomi24]

VE, if Williams’ “Greater than You Think” is anything like ‘The Dawkins Delusion’, the McGraths attempt to respond to ‘The God Delusion’, I too look forward to reading the promised extract. I like a laugh. ;o)