Quizzes & Puzzles2 mins ago
Are Atheists Evil?
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A few years ago God was very much part of the lives of people. Even if one had doubts they were kept to oneself. Today there is almost as much pressure not to believe in God as there was to believe in him.
Is what is happening in the world today a result of man's trying to get along without God?
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Militant atheism is the difference between atheism as it was known, and the modern movement of anti-theism. Whereas in the past atheists took a passive attitude towards God and the Bible, saying that if people wanted to believe in God that was their problem.
Today, the crusade against God and the Bible faces a dilemma. Do they sit back and let people decide for themselves regardless of the so-called scientific arguments against the existence of God. For the average person the existence of God has always been.
Since their philosophical arguments have never succeeded with a nation, the anti-theists have in the end, used violence to suppress religion. We see this happen in communist lands - dictatorial leaders knew that religion will not disappear by itself. They knew that religion will always grow so the only alternative was to force people to give up their religion. We have seen the results in Russia, China, Cuba and others. The same suppression of religion that happened is being called for in the West. Whatever you may think about the Communists, you cannot say they are stupid. They know that if religion is allowed freedom of expression, the vast majority of people will be religious. Unbelief will always lose out in the end. The religious nature of man cannot be suppressed as long as man is man.
The evidence is there. Calls for religion to be removed from public life. Recent news reports show that a ban on public prayers is being called; religion is no longer on the school curiculum and evidences of religion removed from public buildings.
What will be next? Hospitals, colleges, camps, orphanages, youth groups etc run by religious groups dissolved or taken over by the state. Freedom of religious broadcasting, ban on publications, teaching your children forbidden.
LG@ You can be so blind at times. A manifestation of atheism can be any one of the three I listed.
Naomi@I have spoken to atheists. Some don't even know WHY they are atheists. Some atheists have even acknowledged that there may be something.
Sparkles62@ They don't come knocking on your door. They come into your living room via the TV, radio and newspapers.
No, atheists do not use outward signs but they are insidiously entering your minds.
Jomifl@ I am not making judgements or making decisions for others. I leave that to you. You are the one making judgements. You say I have not substantiated that all atheists are not evil. Do I need to? If I said they were, then I am judging am I not? But I am judging. I leave that to you.
Today, the crusade against God and the Bible faces a dilemma. Do they sit back and let people decide for themselves regardless of the so-called scientific arguments against the existence of God. For the average person the existence of God has always been.
Since their philosophical arguments have never succeeded with a nation, the anti-theists have in the end, used violence to suppress religion. We see this happen in communist lands - dictatorial leaders knew that religion will not disappear by itself. They knew that religion will always grow so the only alternative was to force people to give up their religion. We have seen the results in Russia, China, Cuba and others. The same suppression of religion that happened is being called for in the West. Whatever you may think about the Communists, you cannot say they are stupid. They know that if religion is allowed freedom of expression, the vast majority of people will be religious. Unbelief will always lose out in the end. The religious nature of man cannot be suppressed as long as man is man.
The evidence is there. Calls for religion to be removed from public life. Recent news reports show that a ban on public prayers is being called; religion is no longer on the school curiculum and evidences of religion removed from public buildings.
What will be next? Hospitals, colleges, camps, orphanages, youth groups etc run by religious groups dissolved or taken over by the state. Freedom of religious broadcasting, ban on publications, teaching your children forbidden.
LG@ You can be so blind at times. A manifestation of atheism can be any one of the three I listed.
Naomi@I have spoken to atheists. Some don't even know WHY they are atheists. Some atheists have even acknowledged that there may be something.
Sparkles62@ They don't come knocking on your door. They come into your living room via the TV, radio and newspapers.
No, atheists do not use outward signs but they are insidiously entering your minds.
Jomifl@ I am not making judgements or making decisions for others. I leave that to you. You are the one making judgements. You say I have not substantiated that all atheists are not evil. Do I need to? If I said they were, then I am judging am I not? But I am judging. I leave that to you.
That's an interesting point but seems to partially reduce this to a "kill-count" debate. "...anti-theists have in the end, used violence to suppress religion." - Didn't Catholics suppress protestants violently, and protestants Catholics, and Christians Muslims, and Muslims Christians, and just about everybody suppress Jews, at one time or another?
Pointing the finger at "militant atheism" for such acts of violent oppression is bound to bounce right back at the religious, so you should be very careful to go down that road. In fact, I wouldn't even bother. Far better to focus on the questions of this sort:
"The evidence is there. Calls for religion to be removed from public life. Recent news reports show that a ban on public prayers is being called; religion is no longer on the school curiculum [sic] and evidences of religion removed from public buildings. "
Firstly, it has to be said, public preaching is frankly annoying. The street preaches shout loudly and proclaim their views and condemn passers-by as sinners and what-have-you, and don't usually let anyone else get a word in edgeways. I wonder how you would react, or how most people would react, if I set up a pedestal and shouted, "Yea, for I have done the working and we can see that it is so -- the Higgs boson is a natural result of Gauge symmetry breaking and we have seen its signs in the LHC!! And all who do not believe in this are scientific illiterates!" You'd think I was mad...
Religion really ought to be a far more private matter than that. Shout publicly and it becomes part of public life. Since the basis of religion is, in many people's view, questionable and the evidence debatable or even non-existent, I don't think it has any place in education either. Or at least, certainly not if we see Children taught a creationist (and therefore, wrong) view of the world, or a view which encourages judgement of others whose lifestyle is judged poorly by religion. That's indoctrination, and leads to divisive and damaging society.
The other thing is that Religion and Religious study still is on the school curriculum, and is likely to stay that way for some time. There's no suggestion that it's going to be removed so I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
* * * * * * * * * * *
" They know that if religion is allowed freedom of expression, the vast majority of people will be religious."
Is this really true? From my own experience what people want more than anything else is often certainty. Religions provide this, and so people turn to them. While I'm all for letting people make up their own mind, in the past we did not have an alternative explanation to God for what we saw around us. That is changing slowly, and as it does so atheism is becoming more common. Expect this trend to continue -- perhaps partly, because people feel there is just as much "certainty" in Science when there is not, but it will continue all the same.
Pointing the finger at "militant atheism" for such acts of violent oppression is bound to bounce right back at the religious, so you should be very careful to go down that road. In fact, I wouldn't even bother. Far better to focus on the questions of this sort:
"The evidence is there. Calls for religion to be removed from public life. Recent news reports show that a ban on public prayers is being called; religion is no longer on the school curiculum [sic] and evidences of religion removed from public buildings. "
Firstly, it has to be said, public preaching is frankly annoying. The street preaches shout loudly and proclaim their views and condemn passers-by as sinners and what-have-you, and don't usually let anyone else get a word in edgeways. I wonder how you would react, or how most people would react, if I set up a pedestal and shouted, "Yea, for I have done the working and we can see that it is so -- the Higgs boson is a natural result of Gauge symmetry breaking and we have seen its signs in the LHC!! And all who do not believe in this are scientific illiterates!" You'd think I was mad...
Religion really ought to be a far more private matter than that. Shout publicly and it becomes part of public life. Since the basis of religion is, in many people's view, questionable and the evidence debatable or even non-existent, I don't think it has any place in education either. Or at least, certainly not if we see Children taught a creationist (and therefore, wrong) view of the world, or a view which encourages judgement of others whose lifestyle is judged poorly by religion. That's indoctrination, and leads to divisive and damaging society.
The other thing is that Religion and Religious study still is on the school curriculum, and is likely to stay that way for some time. There's no suggestion that it's going to be removed so I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
* * * * * * * * * * *
" They know that if religion is allowed freedom of expression, the vast majority of people will be religious."
Is this really true? From my own experience what people want more than anything else is often certainty. Religions provide this, and so people turn to them. While I'm all for letting people make up their own mind, in the past we did not have an alternative explanation to God for what we saw around us. That is changing slowly, and as it does so atheism is becoming more common. Expect this trend to continue -- perhaps partly, because people feel there is just as much "certainty" in Science when there is not, but it will continue all the same.
Idio.. fortunately Jim has dealt with those points of your's that are deserving of comment so I will move rapidly on to your point that is aimed at me. You said that you do not need to subtantiate you statements, well unless you do they will be treated with the disdain they deserve. As for being judgemental I think you are winning that race but who am I to judge.
The only judgements I make are whether I am reading a well considered argument or a load of flummery based on ignorance and superstition.
The only judgements I make are whether I am reading a well considered argument or a load of flummery based on ignorance and superstition.
idio.. there is no 'why' to being an atheist, it is the default setting for humans. Do we come out of the womb wearing a crucifix or a skullcap? That is why believers have to work so hard at brainwashing children and filling their heads with the utter cr@p that they do. Why you want anyone else to share your hangups astonishes me, just let them think for themselves, it's not too late for them.
First of all I have to apologise for not proof reading my comment thoroughly.
( BTW this is not an excuse)
"religion is no longer on the school curiculum" should have read: religion no longer on the school curriculum.
And it was listed in relation to the call for a ban on prayers, etc.
However, here are a couple of examples albeit not in the UK, but usually, whatever happens in the US happens here.
http://
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In August 2012 an e-petition was put forward requesting that Religion be banned in schools.
Quote:
Responsible department: Department for Education
The teaching of religion in all schools should be banned, not only because of its divisive nature, but because schools are perpetrating a myth, which is unproven and contradicts all the scientific knowledge on the evolution of this planet, the solar system and the universe. Consign religion in schools to part of the history curriculum.
(Sorry can't give you the link for the above as the petition is closed).
Also, as a parent I have been asked by teachers not to let my child write, draw or talk about the Bible because "it upsets the other children".
Religious studies are too much a part of peoples' cultures to be ignored entirely. Religious Education usually focuses on the Cultural Aspect at Primary School, and I think it's very important. All of the Philosophical Aspect comes later, at High School -- and even then, I think it's important to talk about it without necessarily encouraging one answer or the other.
That said, I think you should be far more concerned about people not being taught Science than Religion. The former is a matter of fact, or highly evidence-based theories at least; the latter is I think a private matter and parents can teach it at their leisure, so long as it doesn't lead to children rejecting the modern world. But when schools teach Religious theories to the exclusion of Science, that is very dangerous. The world we live in contains far more evidence that Science and the Scientific method work than there is for religion, and if school are teaching that then it's highly damaging.
Religious decisions can influence people's perceptions of the world and of others within it, and if those perceptions are wrong then the consequences can be a rejection of proven medical science over religious hogwash. See what happens when JWs refuse blood transfusions, or religious fanatics refuse cancer treatment preferring prayer. And these aren't even isolated examples.
That said, I think you should be far more concerned about people not being taught Science than Religion. The former is a matter of fact, or highly evidence-based theories at least; the latter is I think a private matter and parents can teach it at their leisure, so long as it doesn't lead to children rejecting the modern world. But when schools teach Religious theories to the exclusion of Science, that is very dangerous. The world we live in contains far more evidence that Science and the Scientific method work than there is for religion, and if school are teaching that then it's highly damaging.
Religious decisions can influence people's perceptions of the world and of others within it, and if those perceptions are wrong then the consequences can be a rejection of proven medical science over religious hogwash. See what happens when JWs refuse blood transfusions, or religious fanatics refuse cancer treatment preferring prayer. And these aren't even isolated examples.
Seems fair enough to me too. Religion has no place in schools.
I don't know how old your child is, but if he/she is talking about religion so much it's upsetting schoolfriends I dread to think what you're teaching him/her. I can fully understand the school's stance on this. I wouldn't want a brainwashed child influencing my children either.
I don't know how old your child is, but if he/she is talking about religion so much it's upsetting schoolfriends I dread to think what you're teaching him/her. I can fully understand the school's stance on this. I wouldn't want a brainwashed child influencing my children either.
Certainly shouldn't have a place if you are adding "and you should believe this too", no. I went to a CofE High School and, while there were services and all, no indoctrination went on. That's the upper limit I think of what Religious Education should be. Exposure -- because Religion is still a part of modern life and people should know about how it influences our lives and those of others -- but not Indoctrination, or not religious teaching at the expense of more accepted truths.
Jim, //Religious Education usually focuses on the Cultural Aspect at Primary School, //
You think so? Think again. I recently had a four year old, who attends full time Church of England school, tell me that bad men put thorns in Jesus’ head and hung him on a cross and killed him. Do we really need to teach little children about torture and execution? That concerned little face peering up at me telling me ‘that’s not very nice, is it?’, will remain imprinted in my memory forever. I’m just waiting for him to tell me he’s a sinner because some idiot teacher told him so!! These people are abusing and contaminating young minds – but society doesn’t complain - it just smiles benignly, pays the bills, and makes excuses, because religion demands respect - and it gets it. Well, it’s high time that stopped - and I'm delighted that atheists are now speaking out - the louder the better as far as I'm concerned! This utter stupidity – and that’s exactly what it is - makes me really angry!!
You say you weren't indoctrinated at church school. People who claim religion say that too - because they don't realise they have been.
You think so? Think again. I recently had a four year old, who attends full time Church of England school, tell me that bad men put thorns in Jesus’ head and hung him on a cross and killed him. Do we really need to teach little children about torture and execution? That concerned little face peering up at me telling me ‘that’s not very nice, is it?’, will remain imprinted in my memory forever. I’m just waiting for him to tell me he’s a sinner because some idiot teacher told him so!! These people are abusing and contaminating young minds – but society doesn’t complain - it just smiles benignly, pays the bills, and makes excuses, because religion demands respect - and it gets it. Well, it’s high time that stopped - and I'm delighted that atheists are now speaking out - the louder the better as far as I'm concerned! This utter stupidity – and that’s exactly what it is - makes me really angry!!
You say you weren't indoctrinated at church school. People who claim religion say that too - because they don't realise they have been.
I wasn't indoctrinated. For you to say that I was is an unfalsifiable accusation, since you won't believe me now either way I expect. The primary School I went to was not CofE and I cannot remember all of what was taught, obviously. But the over-riding memory is of being taught about religion from a neutral viewpoint. What do Jews wear, that Sikhs have combs in their turbans, where they worship and so on.
If any teaching of the sort you are describing is going on in a Primary school, then yes we should put a stop to that. For me, that went on in Sunday School instead. There's probably indoctrination going on there. I'd argue I resisted it, since I'm not now a Bible-Bashing closed-minded religious zealot.
What should not be taught in Schools is anything, but anything, that is divisive.
If any teaching of the sort you are describing is going on in a Primary school, then yes we should put a stop to that. For me, that went on in Sunday School instead. There's probably indoctrination going on there. I'd argue I resisted it, since I'm not now a Bible-Bashing closed-minded religious zealot.
What should not be taught in Schools is anything, but anything, that is divisive.
Naomi, I agree with you completely, I think the questioner has given us some insight into one of those damaged minds. The very concept of evil is infantile but to think that people who have no belief could be evil is laughable, the only people whohave access to evil are believers because it is a religious concept. Sadly they cannot see that, Isn't there something in the bible about planks and eyes?
Jim, //I wasn't indoctrinated. For you to say that I was is an unfalsifiable accusation//
Well, I didn’t actually say that, but okay, having thought about it, for a self-proclaimed atheist, you do seem to defend religion rather a lot.
Jom, it makes me sick – really it does. It really upsets me. Where vulnerable adults are concerned it’s bad enough …. but little, innocent children? Come on! What is wrong with these people?
Krom, so 'they' say .... but since there are a lot of gullible people around here ready to believe anything, I do wish you’d have put a little wink after that. ;o)
…. just so there’s no misunderstanding, you understand ;o)
Well, I didn’t actually say that, but okay, having thought about it, for a self-proclaimed atheist, you do seem to defend religion rather a lot.
Jom, it makes me sick – really it does. It really upsets me. Where vulnerable adults are concerned it’s bad enough …. but little, innocent children? Come on! What is wrong with these people?
Krom, so 'they' say .... but since there are a lot of gullible people around here ready to believe anything, I do wish you’d have put a little wink after that. ;o)
…. just so there’s no misunderstanding, you understand ;o)
You were certainly implying it.
I don't know, sigh. Let's not turn this into a debate about me and my self-contradictions again. Remember how you didn't want to call (all) those against gay marriage bigots? Isn't it possible to criticise a position but not necessarily everyone who believes in that position?
I don't know, sigh. Let's not turn this into a debate about me and my self-contradictions again. Remember how you didn't want to call (all) those against gay marriage bigots? Isn't it possible to criticise a position but not necessarily everyone who believes in that position?
