Are The West In The Grip Of The Woke...
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Would You Prefer...
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...to be called an atheist or a realist...and is there a difference?
Answers
237SJ, It is the faith/
21:02 Fri 14th Jun 2013
Grasscarp, This section is labelled 'religion and spirituality' It is not labelled 'believers only' Even non believers have views about religion and since they are not persoally committed to religion and haven't invested any hopes in it then it is just possible that they have a more balanced view of it than those committed to it.
I know I am an atheist, whether I am a realist is debateable since I am sure that on occasions I am unrealistic, such as when I hope that people when they become adults can cast off childish things ..such as religion.
I know I am an atheist, whether I am a realist is debateable since I am sure that on occasions I am unrealistic, such as when I hope that people when they become adults can cast off childish things ..such as religion.
Grasscarp, I have not attacked you on a personal level. I simply said that it is not realistic to believe in something for which there is no evidence – and since I doubt you’d accept that as far as a belief in God goes, I used fairies as an additional example because I’m willing to bet that you’d find a belief in them unrealistic. I would have said the same to anyone who posted as you did. If you’re not happy with my comparison, perhaps you can tell me where you find a discrepancy so that we may conduct a civilised discussion about it.
Why on earth would you think that this section is intended only for the religious? That is what you’re saying, isn’t it? I would venture to suggest that my interest in religion somewhat exceeds yours – and I’d guess that the same applies to some of the other non-believers here too.
We’ve been here before, and again you play the victim the moment you encounter opposition. If you are so sure of your belief, defend it without complaining that other people disagree with you.
Connemara, //how does one go on.//
Very well indeed, thank you. Religion is, for me, surplus to requirements.
237SJ, //why does other peoples` faith bother you so much? After all, it doesn`t have anything to do with you does it?//
Unfortunately it has much to do with everyone, because religion affects us all – whether we want it to or not. We’d much rather it didn’t, I assure you.
Spoonboy, see the above. ^^
Why on earth would you think that this section is intended only for the religious? That is what you’re saying, isn’t it? I would venture to suggest that my interest in religion somewhat exceeds yours – and I’d guess that the same applies to some of the other non-believers here too.
We’ve been here before, and again you play the victim the moment you encounter opposition. If you are so sure of your belief, defend it without complaining that other people disagree with you.
Connemara, //how does one go on.//
Very well indeed, thank you. Religion is, for me, surplus to requirements.
237SJ, //why does other peoples` faith bother you so much? After all, it doesn`t have anything to do with you does it?//
Unfortunately it has much to do with everyone, because religion affects us all – whether we want it to or not. We’d much rather it didn’t, I assure you.
Spoonboy, see the above. ^^
Naomi I thought we had agreed to put any past conversations behind us, but you say I am "again playing a victim". I started out tonight innocently responding to daisya and now regret that. As a believer I feel like the coconut on a coconut shy with brickbats being hurled in all directions from those who defend their stance by saying religion causes evil, bible is fairy stories (or wicked) etc. I will try to stay away from the hornets nest that is called religion and spirituality, as kindness and understanding is sadly lacking and to be frank I do not feel welcome.
//play the victim//
In choosing to believe in the arbitrary, for beliefs sake, one makes oneself (and those whose lives are affected by their belief) a victim of a reality that does not bend to our whims but requires an understanding and respect for what is real in order to know what can be changed . . . for the better.
In choosing to believe in the arbitrary, for beliefs sake, one makes oneself (and those whose lives are affected by their belief) a victim of a reality that does not bend to our whims but requires an understanding and respect for what is real in order to know what can be changed . . . for the better.
Grasscarp "
I started out tonight innocently responding to daisya and now regret that. As a believer I feel like the coconut on a coconut shy with brickbats being hurled in all directions from those who defend their stance by saying religion causes evil, bible is fairy stories (or wicked) etc."
Can't you see that none of this is directed at you personally, it is only an attack on your religion. Atheists get the same, we are told we have "sad lives" "no morals" and your good book says we will burn in hellfire " not exactly nice, is it!
There really would be no point in these discussions if we couldn't express our opinions honestly.
I started out tonight innocently responding to daisya and now regret that. As a believer I feel like the coconut on a coconut shy with brickbats being hurled in all directions from those who defend their stance by saying religion causes evil, bible is fairy stories (or wicked) etc."
Can't you see that none of this is directed at you personally, it is only an attack on your religion. Atheists get the same, we are told we have "sad lives" "no morals" and your good book says we will burn in hellfire " not exactly nice, is it!
There really would be no point in these discussions if we couldn't express our opinions honestly.
As any realist must acknowledge, the problems of mankind will never be solved. Despite the diligent and sincere efforts of some politicians. It will take superhuman authority and power to eliminate poverty, sickness, corruption and all our other ills. And the Bible explains that such will be accomplished only by God through his kingdom, his heavenly government byJesus Christ as king.—(Matt 6:9-10 Jeremiah 10:23)
Grasscarp, //Naomi I thought we had agreed to put any past conversations behind us,//
When? I don’t remember that. Remind me.
You must understand that criticism of your religion is not criticism of you personally. If I ask you, as I have here, to differentiate between a belief in a God for whose existence there is no evidence, and a belief in fairies, for whose existence there is no evidence, that is not personal. It’s a valid question relating to belief. As Ratter has said, non-believers are regularly attacked – and, in my case, I know you are aware that those attacks are not confined to R&S. My reputation as one of those terrible atheists follows me into other sections of AB and is raised in discussions in the most unlikely places – and when the like-minded are assembled, it’s not unknown for me to be pilloried in conversations outside AnswerBank too. Although all of that emanates from what my critics see as my unwelcome – and going by the responses I get - seemingly rationally incontrovertible - analysis of religion, the conversation isn’t confined to that – it really is personal – and it’s nasty - but I don’t whine about it – I recognise it for the malicious spitefulness that it is and, depending upon whether, at the time, I can be bothered with the silliness or not, I do the sensible thing by either countering it rationally, or ignoring it. So much for the religionists drawing the short straw! You are not so badly done by.
When? I don’t remember that. Remind me.
You must understand that criticism of your religion is not criticism of you personally. If I ask you, as I have here, to differentiate between a belief in a God for whose existence there is no evidence, and a belief in fairies, for whose existence there is no evidence, that is not personal. It’s a valid question relating to belief. As Ratter has said, non-believers are regularly attacked – and, in my case, I know you are aware that those attacks are not confined to R&S. My reputation as one of those terrible atheists follows me into other sections of AB and is raised in discussions in the most unlikely places – and when the like-minded are assembled, it’s not unknown for me to be pilloried in conversations outside AnswerBank too. Although all of that emanates from what my critics see as my unwelcome – and going by the responses I get - seemingly rationally incontrovertible - analysis of religion, the conversation isn’t confined to that – it really is personal – and it’s nasty - but I don’t whine about it – I recognise it for the malicious spitefulness that it is and, depending upon whether, at the time, I can be bothered with the silliness or not, I do the sensible thing by either countering it rationally, or ignoring it. So much for the religionists drawing the short straw! You are not so badly done by.
237SJ , for starters, unelected men of the church wielding influence over laws that I am obliged to obey, Islamic medical personnel granted special dispensation by the NHS to wear clothing deemed to put my health at risk, and 7/7, the worst day of my life, all have something to do with my aversion to religion – but that aside, why is it that people who defend religion never seem to consider anything except the effect it has on them personally? Are they really that selfish and uncaring? How little concern they appear to have for the turmoil, the violence, and the hatred between men that, as a direct result of religion, this world is experiencing, or for the children born diseased because the church forbids contraception, or for families condemned to abject poverty for the same reason, or for people dying for want of medical attention that religion denies them, or for the voiceless burqa-clad women doomed to a lifetime of subservience, or for females subjected to the appalling horrors of genital mutilation, or for little girls forced into arranged marriages to adult men, or for children being taught false science as fact, or, worse still, burdened with the disgusting concept that they are sinners and that unless they live their lives in sycophantic obedience they are destined for the fires of hell. And what’s it all about? A futile effort by the intellectually feeble and self-obsessed to convince themselves that they are somehow so special that if they adhere to the appalling philosophies of ancient, brutal, and misogynistic writers, they might just cheat death. Are you still wondering why I utterly despise religion?
