Margaret Doughty, British Atheist, 'will Be Denied Us Citizenship Unless She Joins A Church'

[RATTER15]

This is just ridiculous!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/20/margaret-doughty-british-atheist-us-citizenship-joins-church_n_3471194.html?1371730121

[Octavius]

Yes it is.

"Margaret Doughty, who is originally from the UK, faces having her application refused because she declined to “take up arms to defend the United States.”

[jomifl]

It may be ridiculous but it is America the 'land of the free'.

[ludwig]

It is ridiculous. They're saying you can only be a consciencious objector on religious grounds, and not just because you have a conscience.

[jomifl]

ludwig, perhaps a re-write is necessary so that religious objectors can object on concientious grounds.

[ludwig]

In other words, if you think god has told you it's wrong to kill, fair enough, you don't have to.

However if you arrived at the belief it's wrong to kill using your own brain, you're a bad egg.

[naomi24]

That is actually quite worrying. The Land of the Free? Not if you're an atheist!

[Octavius]

She could always return to the UK.

We would welcome her with open arms, no?

[bednobs]

if she doesn't like their rules, she doesn't have to join their club!

[naomi24]

Bednobs, are you sure you're in the right thread? ;o)

[jomifl]

'Free' meaning that you are free to worship any god in this list (written on the back of a stamp)

[Octavius]

Probably an admin error, since it would be violation of the establishment clause in the 1st amendment. Good headline grabber though.

[jno]

as bednobs says, nobody has a right to US citizenship if they weren't born there; if you can't agree to obey their rules, why would they let you in? Just think of all the moaning about immigrants to the UK who refuse to adapt to "our" culture.

But it does seem like something that just hasn't come up before, and they may well reconsider it.

[ludwig]

// if you can't agree to obey their rules, why would they let you in? //

I think we'd all agree with that. The comment we're making is that their rules are ridiculous, not that she shouldn't have to abide by them.

[Clanad]

Like it or not, that happens to be the way the Regulation was written in 1906. Not unlike many other archaic Regulations, to not enforce it would be discriminatory. (Seen here: http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-45077/0-0-0-49904.html ... especially Section (b)(2)(ii)) Does it need changed? Well, it was in 1967... but it's so tightly knit with the military draft act, depending on very similar descriptives, that to change one has consequences for the other.

But, the lady in question could simply join one of the myriad secular organizations that are registered under the US Internal Revenue Service Section 503(c)(2) and easily meet the requirements of the Code.

Or, does the U.K. not have any non-material, non-pertinent laws or regulations that haven't been modernized for decades if not centuries?

Seems to me to be a big hoopla about a gnat's rear end...

[Octavius]

Clanad, whilst some still cling on to the hope that they could legally kill a welshman with an arrow in the walls of Chester, we applly lex posterior derogat priori which probably means they can't.

[modeller]

I have never understood how someone would allow another person or persons to be killed in front of them rather than use a weapon to save them. I remember a consciencious objector once saying to me he would not even stop someone killing his own children if it involved using a weapon.

All this acting in a non combatent role is nonsense. What she is saying she will help others in their killing activities as long as she doesn't actually pull the trigger. Very noble and virtuous. !

[jno]

it used to be illegal to impersonate an Egyptian here, Clanad; I don't know if they've taken that off the books yet.

[mikey4444]

America is a country of bizarre contradictions.

Your son can fight overseas in the Army at age 17 but when he comes home on leave, you can't take him down to the local bar or Pub for a beer, because he isn't 21.

Some States allow children as young as 14 to drive a car.

In Arkansas oral sex is considered sodomy ( some improvement needed to human biology required apparently )

So we shouldn't be too surprised about what is happening to Mrs Doughty.

[jno]

some improvement needed to human biology required apparently

No - Arkansas law simply defines sodomy differently from Britain, that's all.

[ludwig]

// it used to be illegal to impersonate an Egyptian here, Clanad; I don't know if they've taken that off the books yet. //

Unfortunately not. I'm due in court next week.