Is It The Religion Or The Ritual That Breeds Violence.

[modeller]

Is it the strong private faith or the communal ritual that bonds people together whilst alienating them from others who don't share that ritual.

[boxtops]

I think sometimes I could agree - I know some people who attend church for the strong sense of community (I don't know how fervently they believe in the deity, or not).

[mikey4444]

Its the intolerance Modeller that does the damage. Anyway, religion is all about ritual...strip all the ritual away and there is nothing left. All religions are invented and the ritual is used to give them an importance that they otherwise wouldn't possess. .

The central problem with all religions is that if you believe in any one of them, everybody else who doesn't, must therefore be wrong. Religion can't work in any other way, thus we have world-wide intolerance and conflict between different peoples. Its particularly bad within closely-related religions, like the different varieties of the Muslim faith, and also the Christian faiths.

Look at Northern Ireland for an example of intolerance-in-action. They may have largely stopped bombing and shooting each other over there, but there is still wide-spread fear and bigotry at work. I speak from an intimate knowledge of my own families problems in Belfast.

[Zacs-Master]

I think it's probably the ritual. I believe 'rituals' form a large part of the radicalisation process which leads to suicide bombers.

[pixie373]

I don't think it's either. I think it's individual characters that are attracted to like-minded people. Any violence comes down to personalities, not faith. That's just an excuse.

[Zacs-Master]

I think you have to have faith in the first place pixie but faith alone doesn't lead to violence. Rituals brainwash the faithful into believing their religion and god is the only true one, often leading to violence against other religions.

Have a read about group isolation / competition techniques of the more radical religions.

[pixie373]

I agree zacs, but whether you have a faith or not comes down to individual personality, as well as whether you are susceptible to be brainwashed or not. I can guarantee that i, personally, would never be persuaded to commit violence by someone else. It all comes from and is caused by individuals. You wouldn't join a violent cult, for instance, if you had no propensity for it in the first place.

[Zacs-Master]

I think to answer the question you have to take the premiss that it's talking about people with faith. I've seen a very intelligent and apparently strong minded family member become brainwashed by a certain religious group.

[pixie373]

Perhaps so. It's not about intelligence, but susceptibility. You have to be willing to be brainwashed.

[woofgang]

what pixie said.

[sandyRoe]

The aroma of the incense wafting through the air as the thurable is swung. The moment in the service when the Consecration takes place. The priests caparisoned in gorgeous robes... It's the ritual that helps bind congregations together.
Violence generally comes from politics and had very little to do with religion.

[beso]

Perhaps it depends on what plant is used to make the incense.

[modeller]

It seems to me that it is their faith that gives them a cause, it is the ritual that reinforces that belief but it is the communal rituals that establishes the
bonds between them and can lead to violence. It is no coincidence that much of the violence follows Friday's prayers in Muslim countries.

I don't know if thats true for other faiths. Is there any correlation between church services and violence , in say Northern Ireland ? Maybe Mickey could tell us.

[mikey4444]

The great trouble with NI is that the two communities just don't mix. They don't go to school together, as education is segregated. For us in the rest of Britain, a mixed school means boys and girls, but over there, mixed means Protestant and Catholic, which rarely happens.

Most of them live in segregated housing estates, so no mixing there.

A lot of work is also segregated. Few who are Catholic get a job at Harland and Wolfe, or the Police.

So you could easily be born, go to school and then go to work in Northern Ireland and never come across someone that doesn't share the same Faith as you do. Therefore your friends and associates tend to come from the same background as you, thus entrenching the same narrow political views that you have been brought up with.

People give their religious background away by their very names....There are few, if any Catholic William's and few if any Protestant Joseph's. They might live thousands of miles from each other, instead of yards apart.

I am not saying that Protestant Vicars or Catholic priests preach hate and violence from the Pulpit, but a lack of understanding and empathy does the same job.

[beso]

modeller //It is no coincidence that much of the violence follows Friday's prayers in Muslim countries. //

I think this is because they are separated into Shia and Sunni for prayers so it is easy to identify the targets.

[naomi24]

Religion breeds separation, mistrust, and often hatred. Some take that to extremes.

[beso]

Religions rely on separation and mistrust because thy cannot sustain intelligent investigation.

Once a believer tries to determine the truth by investigation of conflicting claims the whole game is up because the obvious choice is to reject both since neither can be substantiated.

[idiosyncrasy]

Not all religions tolerate violence.

[vulcan42]

That is true idiosyncrasy, but why should any religion promote violence?

[modeller]

idio // Not all religions tolerate violence. // Which ones did you have in mind ? I cant think of a single major religion which hasn't used violence.

[sandyRoe]

Are the Seventh-Day Adventists known for their violence? Or for that matter, the JWs who get criticised for their cut + paste preaching?