Science In The Bible

[naomi24]

A day or two back a contributor here said….

“It's [the Bible's] contents are scientifically sound on matters that human researchers discovered only at a later date.”

…. but he declined to elaborate.

I know the bible fairly well, but I can’t think what he might be referring to. Does anyone have any idea?

Or perhaps he would like to explain?

[Khandro]

jake; The OP is I know, with reference to Biblical texts , but as you mention "the religious". Each year scientists from all branches meet with HH The Dalai Lama in Dharamsala and explain the latest scientific developments, and so far, he concludes, nothing has conflicted with either the Buddhist religion or Buddhist philosophy. In fact many concepts such as quantum mechanics and the identities of energy and matter only mirror what has been encompassed for centuries in Eastern thought, and was witnessed and acknowledged by the likes of Spinoza and Schopenhauer.

[jim360]

That's nice, Khandro, but presupposes that the Dalai Lama understands properly what is being said to him.

[vulcan42]

Of course the Dalai lama says that, to say otherwise will undermine his religion.

[jomifl]

A bit remiss of Spinoza and Schopenhauer not to let on that they knew about this scientific stuff without even touching a test tube. The Ancient Greeks also thought everything could be understood by pure deduction. The one flaw in this premise is that you have no way of knowing if you have made a complete @rse of it

[mibn2cweus]

The coattails of science will forever be soiled by those seeking to bask in the second hand glory of riding on them.

[jake-the-peg]

//and so far, he concludes, nothing has conflicted with either the Buddhist religion or Buddhist philosophy//

Apart from the complete lack of evidence of a Human soul and reincarnation but we'll just drawl a veil over that shall we?

[solvitquick]

If the bible contained so much scientific knowledge then the authors were mighty knowledgeable, when lacking (science-based) technology. If they knew so much and did not use it then the authors were pretty dim-witted. It only needed the step from estalished knowledge to technological applicatiion. Archimedes made that step easily e.g. Archimedes Srew to access underground water.
SIQ.

[Khandro]

//Apart from the complete lack of evidence of a Human soul and reincarnation but we'll just drawl a veil over that shall we?//
The human soul does not feature in Buddhist thought; reincarnation does, but this is not disproved by any scientific theory that I have heard of.
jim; (it) // presupposes that the Dalai Lama understands properly what is being said to him.// Why shouldn't he ? - cheap comment!
jomifl; Would you expect a 17th century philosopher grasping the Eastern concept of the emptiness of form to write a scientific paper on it?

[jim360]

I think it's fair to say that anyone who hasn't the ability to do the maths themselves will always be missing something in their understanding of the latest developments, because they'll be getting the information second-hand. As to reincarnation not being disproved, that's just a cop-out frankly. Indeed thermodynamic arguments are probably enough to rule the idea "almost" out -- the amount of information you need to preserve in a reincarnation is basically too much to survive for long, it will suffer from decoherence effects.

Still, never mind, because as long as such ideas haven't been 100% ruled out people can hang onto them without a shred of evidence.

[goodlife]

solvitquick@ Some can see folly of trusting in human wisdom it become evident in the past century. Now, with the added experience of having seen this highly scientific modern age, we are better able to examine the results of human accomplishments.

We can set them alongside the works of Jehovah and more clearly see more where our trust should be placed.(Jer 10:23)

And yet you thought that mankind was entering a glorious new era. Finally, it was thought, problems such as poverty, hunger, unemployment, disease, old age and war were now within the power of humans to solve, I should think again.

[jim360]

So people got ahead of themselves a bit. On the other hand, we've already wiped out two diseases from the face of the earth, and more are sure to follow soon. How ironic that the only reason we've not yet got rid of polio is because of some religious nutters in various corners of Africa.

[jake-the-peg]

OK Khandro - I'm now intrigued

How does reincarnation work without a soul?

What exactly is it that gets reincarnated?

[Khandro]

jim; //As to reincarnation not being disproved, that's just a cop-out frankly//
Really, - everything in the room in which you are, including you, has been re-cycled.

[jake-the-peg]

OK I've had a bit of a look but it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul#Buddhism

//Buddhist teaching holds that a notion of a permanent, abiding self is a delusion//

OK I'll go with that

//the being that is reborn is neither entirely different than, nor exactly the same as, the being that died.However, the new being is continuous with the being that died – in the same way that the "you" of this moment is continuous with the "you" of a moment before, despite the fact that you are constantly changing//

Now it gets a bit weird

The reason we experience continuity is because we have memory - if you have no memory of what has just happened you have no continuity


Science teaches that memory is stored in the physical brain and can be lost by trauma to the brain.

Therefore there can be no continuity across death according to science

So we have a significant deviation here between scientific thought and Budhist teaching (presumaing Wikipedia has given me a sufficient understanding of the Budhist position)

[naomi24]

//Science teaches that memory is stored in the physical brain and can be lost by trauma to the brain.//

Oh oh! We’re back to ‘what is a thought? Memory is stored in the physical brain – but what is a ‘memory’ composed of?

[jim360]

Oh thanks, I didn't know that Khandro.

It has been recycled but has lost all the information of what it "was" before. Well, almost all. The point is, though, that you have to maintain all that information across many, many separate particles. That just doesn't happen -- information about past states is lost phenomenally quickly with so many particles. See Law of Mass Action (which incidentally also rules out Homeopathy).

[Zeuhl]

/Science teaches that memory is stored in the physical brain and can be lost by trauma to the brain. /

To be fair, science doesn't yet understand how memory works.

Or how the brain works. To coin a phrase; in neuroscience there are more questions than answers

Indeed, there is a growing hypothesis that some elements of memory are 'stored' in other parts (cells) of the body. There is particular interest in the role of the spinal column.

Point taken though jtp, not sure why any of it would survive the Crem

Any why would we want it to?

I sort of agree with Khandro and one interpretation of Buddhism

There is an immortality and continuity - it is the continuity of our DNA

Continuance of the blueprint for life is arguably the only purpose of Life

[jomifl]

Khandro, / many concepts such as quantum mechanics and the identities of energy and matter only mirror what has been encompassed for centuries in Eastern thought, and was witnessed and acknowledged by the likes of Spinoza and Schopenhauer. /
I appear to have misunderstood the process of mirroring, care to expand on it a little?

[jomifl]

Zeuhl, the concept of the selfish gene is one way of looking at it.