What Do The Faithful Have That The Rest Of Us Don’T?

[naomi24]

With no explanation, Goodlife is constantly telling the ‘poor’ atheists here that they have nothing – and today Khandro said exactly the same. I'm curious. Just what is it that these chaps think they have that the rest of us lack?

[Khandro]

LG a lot of long-winded huffing and puffing, but your statement that I have said that "a theist would have this greater,deeper response to the music,..." has not, and can not be shown, so my charge still stands.

[naomi24]

Khandro, first Wagner ..... now Socrates …..

mmmm …… Right……

Moving on…..

In consideration of your claim that the religious have in their lives a spiritual dimension that atheists lack, I rather suspect that by pushing Jim on the question of love you may well be firmly en route to shooting yourself in the foot.

[LazyGun]

@Khandro "LG a lot of long-winded huffing and puffing, but your statement that I have said that "a theist would have this greater,deeper response to the music,..." has not, and can not be shown, so my charge still stands"

I think not.

[naomi24]

Khandro, Now I'm mystified. So just where did Wagner come into all this?

[chrisgel]

^^^^ Apparently he mistook the Duke of Wellington for Mr Smith :-)

[naomi24]

Haaa!

[solvitquick]

Dear Khandro,
I've been wathching but avoided interrupting the current local debate. But there seems to be a lull, so here goes.
I respect you as you know but you do make a rod for your own back.
By switching analogies/metaphors and quotes from Aesop to Socrates etc. you do make a rod for your own back and are currently having to fight on more than one front at the same time. As I see it your difficulties include:
(a) At root you have a determined refusal even to consider that all gods were created by man rather than vice versa. This despite your own admission of the obvious, that way beyond prehistory mankind has venerated a vast multitude of gods (your post 23.36 Wed 15/01/24) - what happened to them? - we killed them off actually and invented new ones! Or did they just die?
(b) You fail to recognise that analogies/metaphors move the listener further from the truth unless they enlighten as to the actual explanation you are trying to convey i.e. return to base. Ask any scientist or teacher etc.
(c) Your music example seems to say that it extremely difficult to convey appreciation of religion/religious spirituality/faith or whatever. Well if you chose Wagner's Ring I'd say it was bloody impossible.
Why the need for such deep understanding to be religious? Many people drive a car without knowing what the alternator is or where the battery is - so what's the intellectual religious challenge?
(d) You stick to the the word spiritual as though it only referred to religion. This is not so - as Naomi has pointed out many times and notably chrisgel (19.16 Mon 20/01/14) - It can refer to the brain's intelllect or emotion.
Indeed spitituality can be experienced by simply taking a long walk because this causes the brain to release mildly euphoric chemicals called endorphins.
See you later about other issues,
Regards,
SIQ.

[jomifl]

Since it is extremely unlikely that as soon as someone falls prey to the JWs they develop a deep appreciation of Delibes and are moved to orgasm by Mendelsohn, it would be interesting to know how long this transition takes and what percentage increase in appreciation of the arts is imbued by newly acquired 'spirituallity'. It would also be interesting to know if the 'god' effect extends to other branches of the arts. I await the statistics with interest, but I won't hold my breath.

[solvitquick]

Dear Khandro,
I had hoped to move on with the debate but in the absence of stronger protest from LG or others, I say please modify your language.
We are used to your abusive terms like "hot air" or "flim flam" and they fall like water off a duck's back often amounting to an accolade insofar as the writer has defeated you in that area of debate.
However the use of the word "lying" is beyond the pale.
In my experience, if I say "I don't believe you" and they respond "Are you calling me a liar?", I then say "No, I accept that you believe what you say but I do not agree". That cools it.
SIQ,

[jomifl]

SIQ, I think what the faithful have is rather more emotion than atheists together with a lack of appreciation of how their lives are ruled by it. Just look at their posts, no logic or analysis, just an appeal to emotion.

[naomi24]

I don't usually award best answers .... but I think Zeuhl has cracked it. :o)

[mibn2cweus]

Based on the post count I venture to suggest you didn't come to your decision lightly Naomi. ;o)

[chrisgel]

Naomi - Well that was a marathon :-)
As this thread seems to have come to an end, I hope you won't mind if I recommend a video I watched recently.
It is 10 minutes long and is part of a series about a young mans' (American) de-conversion from Christianity.
I have watched the full series and have found it very moving and revealing.

[solvitquick]

Dear Naomi,
Thanks for awarding a best answer, wouldn't have been my choice but fortunately that difficult decision was not mine to make.
Also thanks for promoting a lively debate.
I presume: "The rest is silence" - Shakespeare's Hamlet.
With Kindest Regards,
SIQ.

[naomi24]

Mibs, indeed I didn’t …. :o)

Chris, thanks for posting that. I’ve watched parts 2, 3 and 4 – and will watch the rest. My thoughts about it are all over the place at the moment. Has anyone else watched any of it?