Evil

[jomifl]

Whilst enjoying 'The musketeers' ( OK I know it's mostly nonsense) last night the thought that 'evil' was perfected and defined by the catholic church crept into my mind. Hippocritically,having perfected it the church then set about exploiting it shamelessly and carried out countless acts of evil to further their own ends. Anybody who disagreed with them was pronounced evil and usually executed (after torture). This what the RC church is founded on, has it learned anything or changed much?

[heathfield]

Hippocritically?

[jomifl]

Dunno what happened there Heathfield, cant even blame an iphone :o) I detect the work of the horned.. and so early in the thread.

[jomifl]

OK... 'hypocritically'

[jomifl]

Not that I have anything against horses apart from the one that bit me.

[Khandro]

'Evil' does not exist as an entity outside of behaviour, an act of evil is an act of ignorance and misunderstanding. Perhaps many wrong perceptions are behind an act of evil; we have to see that ignorance and misunderstanding is the root cause of evil acts. Every human being contains within him or herself all the elements of great understanding and great compassion, but also all the elements of hatred, and violence.

[sandyRoe]

Sometimes evil brings good in its wake. The lust for gold that drove the Conquistadores to enslave much of Latin America was indirectly responsible for the poor people who lived there in blissful ignorance to have a chance to know Christianity.

[jomifl]

Khandro I understand that 'evil' is a human construct, I was pointing out the irony of a religion that was supposedly based on doing good, developing the concept of evil so that it could use it for it's own ends and ending up being evil whilst pretending to do good. It is curious that 'evil' was a an almost completely abstract notion and consistent mostly of offending their imaginary god. Real acts that would qualify for the label 'evil' are carried out by the catholic church regularly and with serene indifference to the plight of their victims.

[jomifl]

Very drole Sandy.

[goodlife]

All I can say is if you know your Bible you know why. The Catholic hierarchy certainly knew that many of its teachings were based, not on the Bible, but on there church tradition, this is one of the reasons for their reluctance to allow people to have access to the Bible.

By reading it, people would become aware of the incompatibility between their church doctrine and the Bible.(John 17:3) The same today.

[society]

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...

[whiskeryron]

May I remind you.

http://youtu.be/qqB3F6N527U

[jomifl]

Thanks for that Ron, I had somehow missed it 'til now.

[Khandro]

jomifl; ".... ending up being evil whilst pretending to do good."
Doesn't "Pretending" here imply a conscious deception which is inexcusable, but it is possible to mistakenly believe what you are doing is 'good' when in fact it is 'bad', and this results from ignorance, not evil.
Interestingly some languages have no word which translates as 'evil', Tibetan for example - because the concept doesn't exist, (nor does 'guilt' by the way).

[jomifl]

GL, I think I actually agree with you. When dogma diverges from the bible or reality it is always those that take second place in the catholic mind. It isn't difficult to see how some christian cults regard the pope as the 'antichrist'.

[jomifl]

Khandro, whist the minions of the vatican have to do as they are told, on pain of excommunication, I have always assumed that a pope must have read the bible at least once. So ignorance isn't a valid excuse.

[Khandro]

Whilst holding no particular brief for the Catholic Church I found the Fry lecture shows how it is now the atheists rather than the theists who talk with missionary fervour and a passionate desire to covert their audiences - what an extraordinary result! Out of 678 supporters of R.C. 410 'converted',
and from such simple rhetoric too, who were these people I wonder?
What a woolly argument for a complete dismissal of the entire Catholic Church, the main plank of it being condoms, - on which R.C. is certainly wrong - but if they changed their view (which they are sure to) and got rid of the child-molesters (which they are doing) would ever thing be OK?

As regards the R.C.'s hierarchy being 'obsessed with sex', what nonsense, though he got a good laugh - but don't forget he's a pro. - to then give the , equally untrue analogy of 'only the anorexic and obese are obsessed with food' (another laugh), watch food programmes on TV, if you will, and you wont see any of these types in evidence.

To attempt to ridicule people who prefer to lead their lives monastically, is none of his business, - perhaps a spell in a Trappist monastery would do him good, and give us a break from his verbal diarrhoea.

[jomifl]

Khandro, Ridicule is the only weapon available since logic doesn't work with those 'of faith'. He wasn't kncking belief or faith, just the monstrous hypocritical edifice of the RC church.

[mibn2cweus]

Evil is the inevitable consequence of belief in the arbitrary by those for whom an alternative exists but choose to ignore or abandon it. Reason is the means and process by which we determine what is real from delusion and right from wrong, a process which is essential to the survival and well being of that entity that is defined by and depends upon reason for its existence and apart from which it will cease to be that which it must choose to be and act to remain . . . a rational human being.

[ludwig]

Khandro's right. Apart from condoms, child molesting, and a long history of doing evil acts through ignorance, the Catholic church is basically ok.

[Khandro]

ludwig, :-) I was though addressing Fry's rhetorical lecture, not the RC church per se. For someone priding himself on his intelligence, it also isn't very bright, though very easy, to dismiss the church for 'evil' actions taken before the Enlightenment ref. Galileo, who wasn't actually tortured, though he was confined to his house.