Britain A Post Christian Country

[emmie]

interesting coming from a former Archbishop, is he right,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27177265

[woofgang]

First sensible thing I have ever heard him say.

[emmie]

perhaps, its interesting coming from a former Archbishop,

[kvalidir]

I would probably say so, and I think that's a good thing. I also like the idea of the State and religion having nothing whatsoever to do with one another, it prevents any religious based lunacy ( from any religion) entering legislation and should theoretically prevent any one religious group being persecuted by another.

[RATTER15]

Well lets hope so, the further in the past we push it the better!!

[solvitquick]

Yes as regards the belief in a god who created all, the universe and mankind.
Mankind has created and destroyed 1000's of gods in it's time (all in mankind's image).
The census will always allege we are a christian country because the answers are biassed by those who were baptised and inculcated as children. Plus churches are needed by most for marriage and funerals as long as currrent cultural attitudes exist.
I don't know if I was baptised, as religion and other trivia were never discussed within our family in post-war England. It was all about survival by ration-book. Later it was the "coming" nulear 3rd World War.
Now we are in the process of dismissing our inconvenient and not so kind god with TV idols, the internet etc.
On the other hand our morals were indeed defined (rightly) by the New Testament in the King James version of the christian bible - written by the wise Greeks approximately 300 A.D.
Kindest Regards,
SIQ.

[modeller]

With any luck we can get rid of the unelected Lords Spiritual, although I doubt it as long as we have the likes of Tony Blair and David Cameron amongst the
political elite.

[naomi24]

I'm not so sure he is right. While most people are not card-carrying church-goers, I know few who don't retain a belief in some form of Christianity.

[mikey4444]

I think Rowan has it spot on here.

And naomi, with respect, you really need to get out more often ! Being a Christian is a bit like being pregnant...you either are or you are not.
I know many more people that say that they have no effective religious beliefs, than I do that say they are Christians, and I am not even counting the Jewish, Islamic and Hindu friends I have.

Ignore all those that say "well, I am Christian I suppose" but don't ever go to church, don't get married, or if they do, don't get married in Church, have their kids baptised or Christened. Owning up to being a Christian to those people is entirely a lazy sham, said because anything else would require some explanation that they are unwilling or intellectually unable to take on.

[tamborine]

The Most Rev Justin Welby wrote.... it was a "historical fact (perhaps unwelcome to some, but true)" that UK law, ethics and culture were based on Christian teachings and traditions......

For now but for how long?

[solvitquick]

Dear mikey4444,
Firstly you owe Naomi an apology despite your "with respect" preface. As far as I know, Naomi, is a working mum and "gets out". She is a valuable contributor to AB but like us all uses it in spare time.
That apart, I agree with most of your sentiments.
As a former Archbishop, he must know what most of us do - claiming to be a christian is a cop-out via the way of using the church for the
wedding-album, getting elected etc.
My own atheism has been convinced today with Chelsea beating Liverpool (on the breaks after "parking a bus" in their own half:):)
Regards,
SIQ.

[modeller]

naomi I agree with mickey . It's the default position ! It reminds me of when I joined the army everyone was C of E unless otherwise stated. I rapidly learnt it was best to call yourself something odd like Plymouth Brethren
and you dodged all church parades.

[pixie373]

Yes, i think people fill in forms unthinkingly, claiming to be Christian, because their parents are/ they've been to church, but not a synagogue/ they've been Christened/ go to weddings in churches etc. It isn't necessarily an active belief.

[naomi24]

Mikey, I don’t need to get out more and people don’t need to be card carrying members of a church in order to harbour belief. I won’t name them but you’ll find several people here on AB alone who do not adhere rigidly to the teachings of any formal religious organisation but nevertheless believe that God is their friend and that their soul will survive death. Although belief is initially founded on formal doctrine, it very often becomes personal and unique to the believer. You very clearly don’t understand the nature of ‘faith’.

Modeller, There is no default position. There are many people who believe in God, Jesus, et al, but never enter a church. You can take that as ‘gospel’.

[pixie373]

And vice versa.

[naomi24]

^?

[mikey4444]

Naomi...I meant no insult to you with my comments, which is why a prefaced them with " with respect".

But your post clearly said that "I know few who don't retain a belief in some form of Christianity" I am merely suggesting that if you mixed with a wider group of people than you say you do, you would indeed meet lots of people that hold the view that religion of any kind, especially Christianity is a completely irrelevant to them in then daily lives.

I agree with modeller, solvitquick, and pixie here. I am sick and tired of people ticking the Christian box, just because they are too lazy to make their minds up. At the age of 61 I must have gone to in excess of 20 Church weddings in my life, probably more, and most of the participants have shown no interest or involvement in religion in any form whatsoever since. And I count plenty of my own relatives in that number.

Believing in a supernatural being isn't like having a preference for Marmite on your breakfast toast, instead of Marmalade. If I thought that it was possible that water could be changed into wine, or people could rise from the dead, or any of the others things associated with Christianity, it would be a completely life-changing moment, and I would probably spend the rest of my life on my knees, hoping that I didn't go hell after I was dead. It would be completely amazing !

I am not prepared to accept that such a lot of people in Britain today cannot possibly make their minds up about such an incredible thing.

[naomi24]

Mikey, //if you mixed with a wider group of people than you say you do,…//

Than I say? What on earth are you talking about? I’ve never said. You have no idea who I mix with. You tell me how you think, and what you would do in certain circumstances, but you fail to consider the fact – and it is a fact - that everyone does not think as you do.

[mikey4444]

naomi...you quite clearly said in your post :::

"While most people are not card-carrying church-goers, I know few who don't retain a belief in some form of Christianity"

I am merely suggesting that if most people you know retain a belief in some form of Christianity, then you can't know many that doesn't !

I expect the Pope knows few who don't retain a belief in some form of Christianity, but that would be due to his circle of friends and acquaintances

They are your words naomi ! Are you saying that you don't know any Atheists, or Jews, of Hindus, etc ?

[askyourgran]

Rowan Williams was more about dancing around maypoles than encouraging the faithful to attend church, some Archbishop he was! Britain is still a Christian country it's laws and our monarchy are essentially based on Christian values, ie giving our money to the poor all around the world and welcoming all and sundry to come here and take the bread from our mouths. To those who wish Britain was not Christian may I ask what do you want it to be....overrun by Islamic extremists who call for fatwas on the unbelievers? Your choice.

[mikey4444]

My choice, askyourgran, would that the C of E was disestablished.

This is the 21st Century and we are, at best, a mixed religion country, or, as I believe, a mostly non-religious country, and the Church should pay no part in our constitution.