Religion, A Benefit To Mankind? Or Not?

[jomifl]

Would mankind now be better off had religion not been invented? supporting reasons for your opinion can be as controversial as you think the AB thought police will allow.

[pixie373]

What's wrong with the "easy option" if it makes most sense, khandro. "believing", by definition, can't be difficult.

[atalanta]

Unfortunately, "ones own personal experiences of the divine" can too often be ascribed to temporal lobe epilepsy. ( Probably what happened to Saul/St Paul.) And sometimes, as in the case of Hildegard of Bingen, the aura which precedes a migraine.
So, religious experience is mostly a brain disturbance.

[jomifl]

Please explain Khandro, how is not bothering to think more difficult than trying to understand how the universe works?

[jomifl]

So do we all agree that religion is an invention?

[Khandro]

pixie; //What's wrong with the "easy option" if it makes most sense,//
Why do you think that "making sense" is the ultimate accolade when most of the important aspects of existence don't?
Does love make sense? Does music and art make sense?
jomifl; Individual religions are of course an invention of humanity, how could they exist otherwise? But the need for a spiritual dimension to an individual existence is not an invention, it is a pre-requisite for a fully dimensional life for many, though if you ain't got it and don't need it, that's you bag.
I'm just back from Slovenia where I visited a monastery where the monks start the day in prayer at 4:00am and continue with an austere regime. A Muslim friend will start Ramadan at the end of this month - no food and water during daylight hours for one month. All I do is rather pathetic by comparison - I occasionally uphold the 24 hour Buddhist precepts which the monks undergo every day of their lives, and I find that hard enough. I believe these are the 'real' tough guys, the ones you sit on your arse and say are taking the "easy option", - wake up!

[Graham-W]

Pascal's Wager is quite amusing. To paraphrase:

Even where there a doubt of the existence of God, an intelligent man should believe in God. If, at the end of his days, there IS a God, he has won everything.
However, if at the end of his days there is NO God, he has lost nothing.

The problem I would have is choosing the right one.

[pixie373]

Yes, khandro. Love, art and music all make sense. They have a positive purpose, and are proven to actually exist. The reason "making sense" is important is because it allows people to tell what is real and what is not.

[pixie373]

Graham, would God be fooled by that?

[Graham-W]

What Pascal actually said was that man should strive to believe in God.

[jomifl]

Khandro,pointless execises however austere and worthy are still pointless. As for spirituality, it isn't all religion and rites, it is a bit deeper than that.

[China Doll]

That's a good point ludwig, I like it. I definitely don't think religion is needed to make a person moral. I also agree jomifl; we're all touched by religion whether we like it or not. I would like to think that without religion we'd havd progressed more as a society.

[pixie373]

//strive to believe in God//
still an oxymoron to me. I could pretend to believe. I couldn't convince myself I meant it, though.

[jomifl]

pixie if you can't fool yourself what chance of fooling god. The pope seems to think he can fool god, perhaps he knows something that he thinks we don't.

[pixie373]

He thinks God is a fool?

[askyourgran]

China, as a Christian society I think we have come a long way, and much further than Islamists and it makes me wonder what the difference is?

[beso]

Religion is, by definition, an unreasonable belief.

Unreasonable people often screw things up.

[beso]

askyourgran //as a Christian society I think we have come a long way, and much further than Islamists//

Christian beliefs also held back our society. It was the breaking of the religious stranglehold that produced the advances.

Had we still been there women would still be completely downtrodden according to the "truths" in the Bible. I believe the stone age attitudes to women to be largest single factor holding back the moral and economic development of any religious society.

Islamic societies are still dominated by their religious beliefs. Islamist have the worst attitude to women of any religion.

[Khandro]

beso; Wouldn't you say that some of the worst acts of violence by men against women are regularly committed by men lacking in any religious beliefs whatsoever?

[pugwashjw]

Religion is just an extension of the direction by Jesus to not isolate oneself from fellow believers...but some have taken it to extremes and continued the old Mosaic law of ' dressing up'.
It is not necessary...
Jesus did not dress up...but he DID...PREACH THE KINGDOM
(John 13:15) For I set the pattern for you, that just as I did to you, you should also do.
(Luke 4:43) But he said to them: “I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”

Even Jesus called the religious leaders of his day..whitewashed graves...