A Programme That Might Be An Eye Opener For Islamophobes...

[sandyRoe]

...can be heard on Radio 4 this afternoon at 4pm. Who'll be listening?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b055g740

[ladybirder]

Thanks for bringing this programme to our attention sandy.

I've just listened to it and it is an eye opener but not in the way you meant. It confirmed what I suspected.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Nice little snippet from Naomi.

[naomi24]

^ Very good. :o)

[SirOracle]

Jackdaw....I think you are confusing the two words (a) Consubstantial and (b) Consubstantiation in your post of 08.35 this morning.

(a) Consubstantial - A term used used by the Council of Nicaea (325 A.D),to describe the divinity of the Son,meaning that the Son is Consubstantial with the Father,in the sense that He and the Father had one and the same substance,not two similar substances.

(b) Consubstantiation - A doctrine that the substances of bread and wine co-exist with the substances of the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. This was first taught by Wyclif in the 14th.century and later adopted by Lutherans and Anglicans.

Sorry to be pedantic here but I know that you are a man who likes accuracy. ;-)

[sandyRoe]

Oh dear. It seems I've fashioned a rod for my own back. :-(
or shot myself in the foot

[vetuste_ennemi]

"sandyRoe, you’ve shot yourself in the foot with the heading you chose for this thread. You'd have been wiser to listen to the programme before posting because rather than it being an eye-opener for Islamophobes it's more of an eye-opener for apologists. I sincerely hope they listen to it – and learn.".
I've just listened to the program.
Try to get a grip, Sandy!

[sandyRoe]

I confess I didn't actually listen to it. I think I felt they'd have had no problems lining up some moderates who could show that religions more moderate face.

[vetuste_ennemi]

"If I could be bothered, and I can't to be honest - I could find loads of bloodthirsty quotes in the Bible exhorting followers to murder non-believers..."
Andy ("Am i bovvered?") Hughes, I'll save you the effort of research.
The most violent passages in the Bible are in the OT, most especially in Joshua , Judges and Samuel 1+2 when the Israelites were invading Canaan and consolidating their power there. These texts are incitements to divinely warranted genocide. On the other hand I am unaware of ANY texts of the New Testament "exhorting followers to murder non-believers,". Somebody with more intellectual curiosity than you may care to contradict me. Not, you understand, that Christianity is soft on unbelief; rather that NT eschatology teaches us that the task of killing sinners will be done not by his followers, but by "the Son Man returning in clouds of glory".
That is why you don't get Jehovah's Witness jihadis.
Now let's take these two remarks:
"... no difference with the Quran".
"Of course, you can find psychopaths in any faith who will use their holy book on which to hang their perverted beliefs, but to try and include an entire religion in the beliefs and actions of a deluded few is surely not rational. "
OK, try this on for size. We'll take your putative psychopath and hang a Christian label on him. Now, then would our fanatic be able to cite any case from HIS religious texts where Christ and his early followers beheaded, or crucified non-Christians, or enslaved and raped non-Christian women?
The answer, by the way, is NO. You don't disagree with my conclusion, do you, Andy?
Now replace Christ and Christian with Mohammed and Muslim and ask the same question. Both Koran and the Hadith abound with examples which could be seen, PERHAPS falsely, but certainly VERY PLAUSIBLY as justifying just such acts.
A few other things in his core NT texts which would make things difficult for the most determined Christian psychopath:
"Love thine enemy".
"Forgive those who persecute you".
"Turn the other cheek".

[dieseldick]

for keyplus and sandyroe.

https://youtu.be/CJoxVkGHzI0

[dieseldick]

this one below. how can a muslim be moderate if you read and follow the hate filled qoran ? where have the so called moderates been lately ?

https://youtu.be/Oz267A6jhbw

[naomi24]

It seems very few of us have 'bovvered' to listen to this. A great pity - but perhaps too uncomfortably close to the truth for some.

[Svejk]

I didn't hear it but I was wondering why this thread went so quiet. So many unanswered questions. Did none of the 'apologists' hear it.

[naomi24]

It's still available svejk. Click on sandyRoe's original link.

[Svejk]

You'll have to slap my hand, Naomi. I was out getting drunk. I will listen when I get a minute. ;)

[sandyRoe]

Did you not go out intending to have a convivial evening(though it would have been a long one as the programme was originally on air at 4.00) rather than aiming to get drunk?

[Svejk]

Sounds, from others who listened, that it confirms my thoughts on Islam. It would be interesting to hear from the 'defenders of Islam'.

[Svejk]

I did a 12 hour session, Sandy. And I'm a bit out of practice.(or practise?)

[sandyRoe]

A marathon 12 hour session would be beyond me now, even on St Pats Day

[Svejk]

Well I still don't feel 'right', sandy. ;-)