Just As Dogmatic

[nailit]

are atheists/agnostics just as dogmatic about their unbelief as religionists are of theirs?
Wouldnt it be more honest to say (when it comes to the 'big issues' such as life after death, paranormal experiences, etc) that we just dont know?

Ive wavered between belief systems for years and have read the bible/koran/other religious writings and Dawkins/Hitchens et all.

Ive spent countless hours reading forums of all faiths and those of no faith. But what strikes me is how similar, atheists present their case similar to how religionists present theirs..."im right and youre wrong"....no middle ground.

[tamborine]

Oldest athiests I can think of are tribes in jungles who havent written much.

[RATTER15]

^^^ what a sidestep!! who wanted to know about the oldest atheists, we are talking about the most dogmatic.

[Khandro]

n. I'm sure most people would get my point, though you pretend not to;
By saying an associate editor of The Spectator, and former editor of BBC Radio 4's Today programme, lacks depth, and by implication that you do, leads me to question your judgement.

[mibn2cweus]

That we suffer from a lack of knowledge of how best to live our lives in the world we face in this 21st century should be an obvious observation, as should the fact that no single text written centuries ago holds all the answers to our dilemma.

In the search for those answers, mysticisms which have only succeeded in plunging humanity into the dark ages have proven to be the last place we should turn to for those answers. Relying on religion to fill the void in our understanding does nothing to alleviate our ignorance while providing only a detour in our pursuit of the knowledge we lack and so desperately need.

There is no omniscient one withholding from us answers to questions we dare not ask for fear of retribution. It is only by virtue of reason we have learned to stand on our own two feet and are enabled to reap the fruits of our labours, to learn from our past experience and look forward to a future mystics only dream of achieving . . . beyond the grave.

[naomi24]

Khandro, I didn’t say he lacks depth. I said that on this subject he’s out of his depth. Liddle is saying what you want to hear but that doesn’t qualify his skewed arguments. He might be good at what he does best but he fails miserably on a subject about which he clearly knows very little.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Saw the Liddle documentary the first time you posted the link, Khandro. Think I commented on it at the time, misspelling his name by confusion with Alice's dad and co-editor of the famous lexicon. Am surprised that you seek such a virulent Islamophobe as an ally. I've been a Spectator subscriber for five years. It reunited me with some former "friends" like Matthew Parris (whom I used to admire as a lucid and courageous journalist, but have since fallen out with over his recent Spectator article in defence of "The New Barbarism", i.e. Muslim "sensibilities"). It introduced me to two new ones, however: Rod Liddle and Douglas Murray. Whatever Liddle hs got wrong about atheism he has got right about other things.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9286532/its-ok-to-mention-anti-semitic-attacks-but-not-who-commits-them/

[Khandro]

v-e; As someone who has occasionally featured in, and read every copy of, the Speccie for at least 30 years I am pleased to welcome you as a newcomer. :0) but you misread both of us if you think he (Rod) is an Islamaphobe and I an Islamophile, - we both have measured views.